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The Official MMA thread - Page 312

post #4666 of 5436
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewRyanWallace View Post

re Slopho: that Jardine fight was unbelievable, it is so frustrating when people cite that as Mousasi being overrrted. Dude completely dominated Jardine, Jardine had absolutely nothing for him. Yes, he probably could've looked harder for the finish but whatever. It was some epically shitty judging. I think Mousasi could do really big things as a middleweight, fuck, I think he could be competitive with most of the UFC lhw top 10.

As for Silva vs Shogun...it is interesting hypothetically but if last night was any indication, Shogun no longer possesses his former speed/accuracy/form. It's possible that this was an active decision for Forrest (and Jones, maybe even Machida 2?), to just try to blast heads off instead of fight a technical battle like Machida 1. So it's possible that Shogun might come into a fight with Silva looking to be more technical/tactical. It would be tough though, he is not as athletic as the pride days when he'd just toss out tornado kicks and fire off endless knees and shit. And mistakes against Silva are costly, you get about two or three and then it's done. The other thing is, so far as I know Shogun has never fought at 185, I think he'd definitely need a tune up fight first to give him the confidence and get him situated making the cut and everything that come with that. Who knows. Probably won't happen, he's only 29 but you can see him aging...

Whoever said Rashad should go down to middle weight...no sir, I think Rashad actually has the best chance against Jones, I would love to see Rashad become champion. He's been training with Tyrone Spong, his stand up is improving, his overall game his improving, his athleticism is probably the best in the UFC (after GSP?), and he's a smart dude who fights intelligently. We'll see what happens between Bones and Page but I just can't see Page doing it, he's a little too simplistic to deal with Jones' crazy bag of tricks + serious size advantage. Rashad (and a number of other people) have been on record saying if Page was more serious and open minded he could be the champ....

Silva vs Jones would be fun, who knows if Silva could work his same magic though. Would be awesome to see. By the time it becomes feasible though Anderson might be done.

This is sooooo wrong on many different levels. The King Mo fight showed that Gegard is overrated. He had no TDD and got worked, GSP would also work him at his current weight no less. Completely dominated Jardine?? I don't think so, you don't win 1 round if you're completely dominated. I too had it a draw because of the point deduction so I don't think it was bad judging either. He's a skilled boxer with fast hands but yes, he's overrated.
post #4667 of 5436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauro View Post

Rule out Shogun vs Silva.
Jones is to new to give him the fight. He needs to have a few more fights under his belt. It would be a horrible thing to have Jones fight Silva and loose. We have no idea of what could happen to Jones.
Jones is a good fighter and INCREDIBLY gifted athlete but if he looses to early all his progress could unravel. We have seen something like this happen time and time again.

yeah but thats part of being a fighter. so much is mental. if he cant come back from a loss he isnt cut out for the sport. thats it.
post #4668 of 5436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slopho View Post


This is sooooo wrong on many different levels. The King Mo fight showed that Gegard is overrated. He had no TDD and got worked, GSP would also work him at his current weight no less. Completely dominated Jardine?? I don't think so, you don't win 1 round if you're completely dominated. I too had it a draw because of the point deduction so I don't think it was bad judging either. He's a skilled boxer with fast hands but yes, he's overrated.

yeah, he fell victim to a takedown-laynpray strategy with king mo and that's his own fault, but he was outworking king mo from the bottom for most of the fight. he absolutely needs to work his tdd but he's still great on the ground, great bjj and great hands. The Jardine fight was unbelievable, literally the only thing Jardine did the whole fight was take him down. Jardine did nothing else significant. watch the fight again dude, his face looked like a smashed grapefruit by the end. even if the first round was a draw after the point deduction...mousasi clearly won rounds 2 and 3. smh

edit: here you can watch whole thing on youtube (and read hilarious comments about what an atrocious robbery this was), it's a nice showcase for mousasi's striking pt 1 http://youtu.be/w70Qb_J1i1c pt 2 http://youtu.be/rFgYG8ARyx8
post #4669 of 5436
^ First, I am sorry to come off like a jerk by saying it was "wrong on so many levels". If I remember, I had the first round going to Jardine, then the second and third rounds going to Gegard, plus the 1 point deduction. Its a draw.
post #4670 of 5436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slopho View Post


+1000. I think Evans needs to drop and if he did he would really give Silva problems.

Only if he doesn't get hit, which doesn't seem likely. Sonnen is a crazy bull. He has always been a crazy bull. That's how he got to Silva. In pretty much in his own words, he thinks that Silva is not a great striker, but a great set up man, and that his secret to success was to just rush, take the shots, and get Silva down. It essentially took him 2 things, 1) good wrestling, and 2) a good chin. Evans has good wrestling, but it's debatable whether it is up to Sonnen's level. He definitely has a soft chin, and he tends to get drawn into mind games - see his fight against Machida. I would confidently predict a 1st round KO.

And whoever said that Evans could beat Jones is on some strong drugs, and/or did not see Jones manhandle Hamill and Bader, both of whom are terrific wrestlers. Bader also has more power in his hands then Evans.
post #4671 of 5436
^It was me and I don't agree with this at all. Rashad does not have a weak chin. The only person to ever knock him out is Machida, and Rashad went into that fight with an idiotic game plan and played right into Machida's skills. Rashad has never gotten into a mind game except in that fight. He won't repeat that mistake again. Jones has never knocked anyone out on the feet. Rashad has knocked out a lot of people.
post #4672 of 5436
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewRyanWallace View Post

^It was me and I don't agree with this at all. Rashad does not have a weak chin. The only person to ever knock him out is Machida, and Rashad went into that fight with an idiotic game plan and played right into Machida's skills. Rashad has never gotten into a mind game except in that fight. He won't repeat that mistake again. Jones has never knocked anyone out on the feet. Rashad has knocked out a lot of people.

Rashad was nearly TKO'd by Rampage. The clock saved him in that fight. The only fighters of note that Rashad KO'd or TKO'd were a fading Chuck Liddell, who had already been softened up by Rampage, and Forrest, who he finished on the ground, not on his feet. Most of his recent wins, Tito aside, have been by lay and pray with no effective ground and pound - his wins over Thiago Silva and 'Page were 3 rounds of scoring takedown points, and were only impressive in how little damage he managed to inflict from the top.

No, Jones hasn't KO'd anyone yet, but his striking has set up massive takedowns which lead to vicious beatings, and he is proven against wrestlers. He murdered Hamill and Bader, who also has a lot of power. I just don't like Rashad's chances against Jones. His wrestling is not as effective, he is not nearly as big and strong as other fighters that Jones has manhandled, and he has power, but not nearly the versatility and facility in the striking department that Jones has already exhibitied.
post #4673 of 5436
Look, my last post wasn't really trying to assemble an argument for why Rashad would beat Jones, I was merely pointing out some flaws in the common thinking/things I recall people saying here. Honestly if I had to bet money I'd pick Jones. I still like Rashad's chances the best of any current lhw. People are so quick to count Rashad out. How does getting ko'd by no one but Lyoto Machida + getting rocked once by Rampage but not getting knocked out = weak chin? Also Bader is a few inches taller than Rashad and he may throw bigger bombs but I don't think he is stronger/more athletic than Rashad....Rashad has an inch reach advantage on Bader. And let's be Frank, Bader has not exactly been a shining star recently, pretty sure if Rashad fought Bader it'd look something like that Tito fight.
post #4674 of 5436
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post


Rashad was nearly TKO'd by Rampage. The clock saved him in that fight. The only fighters of note that Rashad KO'd or TKO'd were a fading Chuck Liddell, who had already been softened up by Rampage, and Forrest, who he finished on the ground, not on his feet. Most of his recent wins, Tito aside, have been by lay and pray with no effective ground and pound - his wins over Thiago Silva and 'Page were 3 rounds of scoring takedown points, and were only impressive in how little damage he managed to inflict from the top.

No, Jones hasn't KO'd anyone yet, but his striking has set up massive takedowns which lead to vicious beatings, and he is proven against wrestlers. He murdered Hamill and Bader, who also has a lot of power. I just don't like Rashad's chances against Jones. His wrestling is not as effective, he is not nearly as big and strong as other fighters that Jones has manhandled, and he has power, but not nearly the versatility and facility in the striking department that Jones has already exhibitied.

I laughted for 2 minutes when I read this. This is so true. On another note, some guy on Yahoo says the only way for GSP to cement his legacy is for him to fight Anderson Silva. This sounds like some schoolyard kid trying to instigate a fight, GSP would get worked, there are still WW out there for him to fight. I can't wait until October 29th when Diaz gets worked.
post #4675 of 5436
WOW! The JDS-Cain HW title fight will be on the inaugural UFC on Fox event in November. The UFC isn't messing around!
post #4676 of 5436
I fucking called that, fuck yes.
post #4677 of 5436
Top 5 fight of the year candidate and it will be free. I agree with Dana on this, although I think THINK he's using an the old boxing paradigm "Where the HW division goes, goes boxing" Good luck, I hope this works well and doesn't get drowned out by Thanksgiving football games.
post #4678 of 5436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slopho View Post

Top 5 fight of the year candidate and it will be free. I agree with Dana on this, although I think THINK he's using an the old boxing paradigm "Where the HW division goes, goes boxing" Good luck, I hope this works well and doesn't get drowned out by Thanksgiving football games.

It's on November 12. UFC is worried about the Pacquiao PPV taking place the same night, which is why the event is only one hour long and ends before the boxing. If the fight is short, the UFC will show the prelims on tape delay.
post #4679 of 5436
post #4680 of 5436
Awesome.
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