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The Official MMA thread - Page 305

post #4561 of 5436
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewRyanWallace View Post
lol bigfoot would destroy all ufc heavies except cain and jds, possibly carwin although now that carwin is off roids who knows if he'll still be able to hit as hard. have you seen pics of him recently? looks like a different person.

Bigfoot over Pat Barry??

Bigfoot over Big Nog.
post #4562 of 5436
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewRyanWallace View Post
lol bigfoot would destroy all ufc heavies except cain and jds, possibly carwin although now that carwin is off roids who knows if he'll still be able to hit as hard. have you seen pics of him recently? looks like a different person.

Yeah, b/c guys coming into the UFC have always just walked through the promotion. Cain, Carwin, Lesnar if healthy, Mir, hell maybe even Big Country or GG and any number of the other mid-level guys could all give him a run for his money.
post #4563 of 5436
First of all, that is a terrible argument, see Lesnar jumping into the heavyweight division and becoming champ pretty quick and reigning for more than a minute. Second, what is this Bigfoot is mid-tier thing based on? Have you guys seen him fight? did you watch the big country mir fight? Mir is improving, he is still not even close to Big Foots level. Their fight would look like Lesnar Mir 2, except much worse because Big Foot is actually a great martial artist, not just a great athlete. He would get put on his back, smothered and have his brain splattered against the canvas gorilla on fedor style. Gonzaga would probably lose to big country at this point, not even serious competition for Silva.
post #4564 of 5436
Id like to see Werdum fight UFC guys again and start submitting everybody. Dana would be pretty eye popped. Not that I like Werdum, I just think it would be pretty funny.
post #4565 of 5436
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewRyanWallace View Post
First of all, that is a terrible argument, see Lesnar jumping into the heavyweight division and becoming champ pretty quick and reigning for more than a minute. Second, what is this Bigfoot is mid-tier thing based on? Have you guys seen him fight? did you watch the big country mir fight? Mir is improving, he is still not even close to Big Foots level. Their fight would look like Lesnar Mir 2, except much worse because Big Foot is actually a great martial artist, not just a great athlete. He would get put on his back, smothered and have his brain splattered against the canvas gorilla on fedor style. Gonzaga would probably lose to big country at this point, not even serious competition for Silva.
Dude, this is so much fail I don't even know where to start. Want to put some money on Big Foots next few fights? How about $100 that he never becomes the HW champ in the UFC? Honestly, I read a lot about MMA and follow the sport closely and have for years and years, and I've never heard anyone call Big Foot a top tier heavy. Granted, he looks decent as of late and beating Fedor is obviously huge for him but lets face it, Fedor has not evolved, has looked unmotivated for a few years now, and is fighting out of his weight class. Before that he beat a done AA and lost to Werdum. Before that his wins are scrub city. Jim York? Cabbage? Ricco's reanimated corpse? Not exactly names that strike fear in the hearts of men. I only mention the fail rate of non-UFC fighters comin gin b/c it happens over and over. A non-UFC guy sets the world on fire, comes in with a lot of hype, and gets rolled. Lesnar is the exception. Look at Shogun, Cro Cop, Kid, Nak, Suduko or what ever his name is, HH, Aoiki got rolled in SF, and at the last event, Jorge got rolled after breaking various top ten lists due to his work in Japan. Now I love a lot of those fighters and many of them have done well since, but the idea that guys that look good in 3rd tier promotions are going to look as good in the UFC has been disproven time and again. I don't think he is a scrub by any means but to even claim he would roll the UFC division is a joke. Until he proves otherwise he is still mid-tier.
post #4566 of 5436
You forgot Mike Kyle, who is no slouch. Look, first of all, I never said Bigfoot would become UFC champion. You are sadly committing the fallacy of "UFC is the best, everyone else is SCRUBS!". You can pretend that beating Fedor is no biggie, that's fine. If we're just talking about wins, who has a better resume, really? Cain, JDS, maybe Carwin. Mir looks ok on paper but would get stopped by Bigfoot just like his second fight with Lesnar. BC is barely on the cusp of the top tier of the UFC heavies and that should tell you something about how shallow that division is right now. He beat Schaub and Struve. That's it. lol Big Country is a talented fighter but the dude got his ass beat by an injured Mir and like you say his record is scrub city! Beyond that you're using some kind of sad MMAmath combined with typical UFC nuthuggery to come to the conclusion that Silva is not top tier. Not sure how closely you are actually following, plenty of people rank him top tier, some rank him top five (gasp!) http://espn.go.com/mma/rankings/_/class/heavyweight are terrible ufc nuthuggers, have him at 7 http://mmaweekly.com/heavyweight-div...mit-mma-top-10 at 6 http://www.bloodyelbow.com/rankings at 6 http://www.fightmagazine.com/mma-ran...t-rankings.asp number 4 http://www.fightmatrix.com/mma-ranks...eight-265-lbs/ number 5 http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles...Rankings-27767 at 10 last year, sherdog has obviously moved him up since then, plenty of people on the forum rate him around 5 It's real easy to say "Oh yeah, he fought cans, that's not a big deal, it'd be different in the ufc." Really. Go watch those fights, I've been following MMA for three years and I hear long time fans say the dumbest shit all the time. MMAmath doesn't work, comparing wins is questionable; styles make fights. Silva is a fucking monster that few in the UFC could handle, I am not sure how you're going to try and argue this. So far what I hear is "UFC quality is better it will be different when he's in the octagon!" magically? He's not fighting the UFC he's fighting UFC fighters; good fighters, yes, but most not good enough to deal with his size and skills.
post #4567 of 5436
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewRyanWallace View Post
You forgot Mike Kyle, who is no slouch. Look, first of all, I never said Bigfoot would become UFC champion. You are sadly committing the fallacy of "UFC is the best, everyone else is SCRUBS!". You can pretend that beating Fedor is no biggie, that's fine. If we're just talking about wins, who has a better resume, really? Cain, JDS, maybe Carwin. Mir looks ok on paper but would get stopped by Bigfoot just like his second fight with Lesnar. BC is barely on the cusp of the top tier of the UFC heavies and that should tell you something about how shallow that division is right now. He beat Schaub and Struve. That's it. lol Big Country is a talented fighter but the dude got his ass beat by an injured Mir and like you say his record is scrub city! Beyond that you're using some kind of sad MMAmath combined with typical UFC nuthuggery to come to the conclusion that Silva is not top tier. Not sure how closely you are actually following, plenty of people rank him top tier, some rank him top five (gasp!)

http://espn.go.com/mma/rankings/_/class/heavyweight are terrible ufc nuthuggers, have him at 7
http://mmaweekly.com/heavyweight-div...mit-mma-top-10 at 6
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/rankings at 6
http://www.fightmagazine.com/mma-ran...t-rankings.asp number 4
http://www.fightmatrix.com/mma-ranks...eight-265-lbs/ number 5
http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles...Rankings-27767 at 10 last year, sherdog has obviously moved him up since then, plenty of people on the forum rate him around 5

It's real easy to say "Oh yeah, he fought cans, that's not a big deal, it'd be different in the ufc." Really. Go watch those fights, I've been following MMA for three years and I hear long time fans say the dumbest shit all the time. MMAmath doesn't work, comparing wins is questionable; styles make fights. Silva is a fucking monster that few in the UFC could handle, I am not sure how you're going to try and argue this. So far what I hear is "UFC quality is better it will be different when he's in the octagon!" magically? He's not fighting the UFC he's fighting UFC fighters; good fighters, yes, but most not good enough to deal with his size and skills.

Isn't Kyle the LHW who fought Bigfoot giving up 50 pounds and still put him on his ass?? Bigfoot barely escaped the first round.

As much as we sound like UFC nuthuggers you sound like a Fedor nuthugger. To think the Fedor is still relevant is just nuts...hugger. My problem with Bigfoot is he's starting to think he's billy bad ass for stopping Fedor. Fedor almost got stopped by Rogers for goodness sake. IMO I don't think Silva could be the follow UFC HW:

Big Nog

Lesnar

Mir

Carwin

Dos Santos - - This guy would kill Silva

Pat Barry

Yeah I'll say it Mitirone
post #4568 of 5436
Nah, I'm with you, Fedor is done IMO. He is still far more skilled than most UFC heavies. Maybe you think this makes me a nuthugger, I have no idea, but Fedor would beat Big Nog, Pat Barry (lol Pat Barry lost to overthehill crocop), Mitrione, for sure. Who knows about Lesnar, Carwin would be tough wouldn't bet for Fedor in that fight, Mir would be a test but I would bet on Fedor. No Cain? Or maybe just doesn't need to be said I'll say it now Silva beats all of them except Cain, JDS and possibly Carwin.
post #4569 of 5436
also I'm very excited for Guida Pettis.
post #4570 of 5436
ARW. I am a huge Fedor fan, have been for years. I will always be a proud apologist and rank him as the GOAT to date. Nor am I really a UFC nut hugger. Many of my favorites came from Pride and I've always rooted for the non-UFC brands to succeed. Affliction even had a decent HW roster for a min. But the reality is that the UFC is the only game in town and has been for a few years. SF has a few decent fighters. Dream might have a few as well. But if you've been paying attention this happens over and over, a fighter looks good in some up start org. and people start calling him the second coming. There is a strong pro Japanese bias and a strong anti UFC bias in all this. But when those guys come to the UFC or in the case of Aoiki (or Gomi the first time), America in general, they get lit the fuck up. There are a lot of reasons for this. For one, with a lot of the Japanese fighters they don't do a good job of cutting weight. I think Aoiki has all the skill in the world but he should drop. To his credit I think he has. The other problem is that for these other orgs you don't have a deep talent pool so their one good fighter gets to fight any number of also rans and has beens. e.g. Bigfoot v. Ricco. There is no insistence that every guy fight good fighters every time. The UFC has a lot of really talented mid level fighters. Guys like Stahn, Rousmares, Story, Phil D., hell even a guy like Botesh. They will likely never where the strap but they are strong and game fighters. When you fall of the top tier in the UFC, you fall into the arms of guy like Story, who would be Dreams ww champ hands down. This means that to stay on top you are always fighting and beating tough, tough guys. This just is not the case in the other promotions. The mistake has been to time and again assume that the talent pool is roughly equal because a few guys on top look like (and are) legit top ten fighters. But I've been watching this sport long enough and I've been watching guys come into the UFC and have trouble and I've finally learned to be really sceptical of a reputation made elsewhere. As for his magic skills, where are they again? He's big, his striking is not as good as it should be, and he has a black belt. I did watch him fight AA, and he looked like shit. For a guy that is considered to have good stand up there is no excuse for not KOing glass jaw Arloski. Hell, Serge K. even managed that. He manhandled Fedor and almost lost to Mike K., both of whom should or do fight at LHW. As for the rest, it's easy to look good against crap fighters.
post #4571 of 5436
I agree 100% with all of this. But I stand by what I said before because I think the heavyweight division is an exception; in the UFC it is seemingly kinda shallow and I think that has to do with how different fighting at heavy is from any other weight class.
post #4572 of 5436
DH and Fedor lined up at 220 catch weight...interesting. Both will just be throwing bombs. Should be entertaining.
post #4573 of 5436
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewRyanWallace View Post
I agree 100% with all of this. But I stand by what I said before because I think the heavyweight division is an exception; in the UFC it is seemingly kinda shallow and I think that has to do with how different fighting at heavy is from any other weight class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kruze View Post
DH and Fedor lined up at 220 catch weight...interesting. Both will just be throwing bombs. Should be entertaining.

Fedor should beat Hendo like a rented Mule. If not, put a fork in him.
post #4574 of 5436
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewRyanWallace View Post
lol bigfoot would destroy all ufc heavies except cain and jds, possibly carwin although now that carwin is off roids who knows if he'll still be able to hit as hard. have you seen pics of him recently? looks like a different person.

I am not sure I'd agree with this assessment. His main problem is his standup game. He is getting better, but a powerful striker with good takedown defense, like JDS, or a top tier wrestler (Carwin, Cain) is simply not going to be afraid of him. No matter how big he is, he doesn't seem to have KO power in his hands, which would make even guys like Mir (a notoriously soft chin) unafraid of him standing up. He has a really strong top game, as you'd expect from a huge guy, but he doesn't have a great shoot, and thi I guess that we'll find out soon enough.

Cheers,

Fok.
post #4575 of 5436
Anyone watching the TUF finale? Pretty uneventful opening fight. I've got Ferguson in the final TUF fight and Guida in the main event.
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