The MBA Thread

[Jbreen1]

Originally Posted by The Louche

Comparing undergrad to MBA is these terms is futile. Completion of an undergrad degree is demonstrating that you are willing to take the initiative and male the minimum effort - its like raising your hand. MBA tends to be superfulous, often regarded as neccessary only by those that need letters next to their name only b/c they themselves are unable to meet the demands of reality.

Yea MBA's are great, but in certain contexts. I'm a year away from graduating with my undergrad degree in business admin. I was convinced that I needed to get my MBA right away before I started working. I figured an extra year is no big deal and I'll get it out of the way. But after doing some research, talking to profs, talking with people in the industry, it's a bad idea. Getting an MBA is good after you have worked for a while and need it to advance in your career. Grads who go straight to getting their MBA actually have a tougher time getting a job then someone with just a bachelors. MBA's are for specializing in something particular and really should only be considered after several years in the business field.

 

[gdl203]

Originally Posted by The Louche

a good friend of mine that started on Wall Street (JPM) during the most recent boom (approx. 2002)

 

[cchen]

Originally Posted by constant struggle

Hmm yes, but I don't know if I want to stay in IT forever, although the jump from back-office to front-office is normally quite hard... It would be nice to have the chance to do so... I also have a real interest in finance and economics

go for the MBA then, but really think about what you want to do post-MBA.

 

[dshin]

Originally Posted by constant struggle

Some questions for you all... I am a little over 2 years out of school, working at a top company doing IT application development. I have been picking up more and more responsibilities over time, and have been getting good feedback from my managers all along. I have been exposed to some minor management tasks such as writing documentation for business proposals, and other tasks that involved streamlining my entire group into new processes and taking on the effort all on my own. At this point, I know I still have some technical learning to do, but I want to go the path of management in the long run. Should I go back to school for an MBA pretty soon? Or get stuck at a lower management position in 5 years or so, and have a hard time progressing. I am also not sure if I want to stay in back-office IT work my whole life either. Really not sure what to do here to reach my goals. The problem is my undergrad GPA was not the greatest, around a 2.9 with a bach of science in computer engineering. Although it was mostly due to me not really caring about school the first two years... ( I managed to get over 3.0 over the last 2 years of school ). Regardless I have a much stronger work ethic now, but I feel that my undergrad gpa may hinder me into getting into a decent (top 25) MBA program. Any advice?
I'll share my story...I just started in 1/09 at UofM Ross's (Top 5 per US News) evening MBA program. My undergrad was a BS in chemical engineering also at UofM. My GPA sucked...just over 2.0. My forte was my work experience. I've been at my current employer for 8 yrs, 4+ in management. I also did pretty well on the GMAT...690 (goal was 700...but I didnt think it was too bad considering that it was the 1st time taking an exam of any sort in 8+ yrs and with a week of preparation). I also got very good recommendations and my essays were top notch. If you can demonstrate excellence in other areas, your GPA wont/shoulnt hinder you from having a shot at a top tier school.

 

[dshin]

Originally Posted by blackdarkeye

Interesting thread.

Right now i am planning whether or not to do undergrad buiness at Ross in univ of michigan.
Is finding a job easy with a undergrad buisness?

I had a lot of friends when I went to michigan (94-99) who got BBAs from Ross and they had no problem finding jobs. Not sure about these days but when I was in school, Ross was consistently ranked #1 BBA program. Of course times are different now...but I would think that a BBA, or any degree for that matter, from UofM, will always hold some weight in the job market.

 

[Don Carlos]

Originally Posted by blackdarkeye

Interesting thread.

Right now i am planning whether or not to do undergrad buiness at Ross in univ of michigan.
Is finding a job easy with a undergrad buisness?

Easier than finding a job with an undergrad degree in English; I can tell you that from hard personal experience.

Now obviously, an undergrad business degree is not going to be some sort of automatic ticket into a nice job, much less a nice career. You're still on the hook to work hard, make the grades, make the connections, and have a solid plan. I could say the same thing for a graduate business degree -- be it a master's in a specialized field, or an MBA. The degree is nice, but you're still on the hook for the hard legwork.

For what it's worth, Ross is an excellent school. I don't know any undergrad business majors, unfortunately, but I am very good friends with plenty of MBAs from Ross. All of them are successful, and the school is consistently ranked in the top 5 to top 10 on any given year. Their success was not assured simply by virtue of going to Ross, mind you; Ross got them in the door at some nice companies, and from there, the onus was on them to succeed.

And now for a tangential word of advice:

I think a common misconception many young people these days have about school is that it's an automatic ticket to a better life. Get the JD from the top law school and automatically become a successful lawyer. Get the MBA from the top b-school and automatically become a rich hedge fund manager. Etc. Life doesn't work that way, unfortunate though it may be. There is no such thing as a degree that will guarantee you anything. There are degrees that will help you out a great deal, but no credential is going to put your career on successful autopilot. I'm sure you know as much; I'm just pointing it out because I see too many kids these days who go into it all thinking otherwise.

 

[The Louche]

Originally Posted by gdl203

No, He's done well. He is in restructuring - his business is gang busters right now with all the companies that are going down the *******. Job security.

 

[SirSuturesALot]

How difficult would it be for an international applicant to get into a top 5 MBA program if they have 2 years of international experience in BB IB or MBB consulting? What about MM PE?

 

[cchen]

top bschools love international applicants

 

[dshin]

Originally Posted by cchen

top bschools love international applicants

This I can attest to. It seems like half the people in my classes are int'l students... especially Indian.

 

[Don Carlos]

Originally Posted by SirSuturesALot

How difficult would it be for an international applicant to get into a top 5 MBA program if they have 2 years of international experience in BB IB or MBB consulting? What about MM PE?

It's pretty much impossible to reduce applicants to a set of easy stats and give an honest answer. GMAT score + X years of work experience in Y industry at Z firm does not add up to some magic admissions quotient. How you position yourself, through your essays and recs and interview, also plays a huge role. So does luck, if we're being perfectly frank here.

The only things I can tell you about your chances at top 5 schools, given what info you've presented, are twofold:

1) International experience is always a big plus, but
2) Only two years of work experience is a tough sell. You'll need to make sure this was damned good, meaningful work experience, about which you can write some killer essays.

Also, if you're coming out of IB (BB or boutique doesn't really matter too much, FWIW), prepare to be heavily scrutinized on your GMAT quant scores and/or all math classes you've ever taken in your life. If you're positioning yourself as a finance guy, the top schools are going to put your financial chops under a microscope. It's also doubly hard, because you're competing against so many other IB/PE/VC/PWM/etc. types. You're one of a million just like you. Same with consulting. All the more reason why you're going to need to spin an amazing story for yourself.

In a lot of ways it's easier to get into b-school coming from a nontraditional background than from a prestigious, but traditional background like IB or consulting. If you're completely unique, you stand out very easily. If you're completely unique and you've got the grades and the test scores to match the kids from the traditional backgrounds, you've got the closest thing going to a sure thing. A poet who spent five years in the Peace Corps and has never had a day's worth of for-profit business experience in his life is going to have a much easier time than Generic Investment Banker #45646567757, provided the poet and the banker have the same test scores and undergrad prestige and transcript. It's on you, as a traditional candidate, to prove not just that you can handle the work -- that's almost a given in your background -- but that you've got an interesting story to tell in your application.

 

[Pennglock]

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

In a lot of ways it's easier to get into b-school coming from a nontraditional background than from a prestigious, but traditional background like IB or consulting. If you're completely unique, you stand out very easily. If you're completely unique and you've got the grades and the test scores to match the kids from the traditional backgrounds, you've got the closest thing going to a sure thing. A poet who spent five years in the Peace Corps and has never had a day's worth of for-profit business experience in his life is going to have a much easier time than Generic Investment Banker #45646567757, provided the poet and the banker have the same test scores and undergrad prestige and transcript. It's on you, as a traditional candidate, to prove not just that you can handle the work -- that's almost a given in your background -- but that you've got an interesting story to tell in your application.

I've got to disagree slightly. How many investment bankers can possibly be applying for their MBA any given year? A smaller number than the spots in the top-10 schools, for sure. A top undergrad + experience at a BB financial institution or top consulting firm is still almost a lock for the top B-schools. I can't think of a single analyst working under me in the last few years who applied and didnt get into a top MBA program.

 

[Don Carlos]

Originally Posted by Pennglock

I've got to disagree slightly. How many investment bankers can possibly be applying for their MBA any given year? A smaller number than the spots in the top-10 schools, for sure. A top undergrad + experience at a BB financial institution or top consulting firm is still almost a lock for the top B-schools. I can't think of a single analyst working under me in the last few years who applied and didnt get into a top MBA program.

You'd be surprised how many burned-out bankers jump ship to top b-schools as a means of career change every year. My class must have had several dozen at least. And in this economy, too, we're going to see a lot more laid-off talent or between-jobs talent looking to hedge their bets in school and sit out the recession.

While it's certainly going to help your chances tremendously if you're applying as a superstar analyst at a top firm, I wouldn't go so far as to call any particular background a "lock" on anything. Especially this day and age. We have to keep in mind that application numbers are up by double digit percentages over last year, which was itself an unprecedented record holder.

Finally, apropos of nothing, can I steal some of your analysts?

 

[freecashfool]

Agree with arrogant bastard - I'll be applying to b-school for 2011 entrance next year, and to the adcoms, bankers and consultants are a dime a dozen... there needs to be a real story there about what makes you unique -- the quality of your experience impacts the perspective you offer. That being said, a huge chunk of business school admit classes are filled with bankers/consultants/finance professionals, it's just a matter of crafting your story to set yourself apart.

I actually feel that business schools are looking to attract younger candidates, hence the way Harvard/Stanford have started pushing for undergraduate applications. So just having 2 years of experience shouldn't be a huge minus on your app or anything like that.

 

[jptoor]

I'm currently a Haas student, and I understand that the true value of the degree is more who you know, rather than what you know. Although I am learning that dealing with a bunch of type A personalities will drive a type A personality mad...

I applied to Wharton undergrad, and didn't get in, but talked with a ton of professors and grads when I was applying, and many of them found their current positions through fraternity/class/alumni connections. One person said that less than 20 were recruited (class of 500~). Most of them got their jobs through connections.

Which is why I'm comfortable that an MBA+fraternity membership should get me a decent job.