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Workout question - How not to get big? - Page 4

post #46 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by beasty View Post
Opening it to gape in awe at what Jay, Lee, Ronnie is doing is allowed though.
Or, apparently, for when you're on your knees in front of them.
post #47 of 69
to get big you will have to go past where you want to get to.
post #48 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumbie View Post
Or, apparently, for when you're on your knees in front of them.

Speaks volume about you that you can connect anything to sex.
post #49 of 69
I know. It's a rare gift!!!
post #50 of 69
related question....

So if I pick some weight that is a struggle for me now at say 6 reps. Keep at it, at it, through 3x6 out to 8,6,6, eventually get the hang of it...a degree of muscle growth comes with that, right? (I remember whacked posting that 3x8 is ideal for growth, so we would go through that phase at some point).

Ultimately, I get stronger and it gets easier, so then if I keep the same weight, and just really crank the reps (so I am, say, doing 3x12-15), I will start to tone that muscle and increase its endurance without much further growth, right?
post #51 of 69
i believe so, atleast i hope so due to the fact I only have one pair of weights in my house ( 2, 20 lb dumbbells)
post #52 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by m@T View Post
Ultimately, I get stronger and it gets easier, so then if I keep the same weight, and just really crank the reps (so I am, say, doing 3x12-15), I will start to tone that muscle and increase its endurance without much further growth, right?
No. There might be a cutoff, but it won't be at 12-15. It'd be more around 20 and depends on the muscle. Even then, the muscle won't 'tone'.
post #53 of 69
explain?
post #54 of 69
Cause "toning" is determined by your diet + cardio.
post #55 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by constant struggle View Post
explain?
Kinda hard to do until you're well-accustomed to traiing theory, but basically different muscles respond differently to different workloads. It's why walking doesn't give you huge thighs and all that but someone who starts running might increase the size of their legs slightly. Someone who does bodyweight squats can increase it even more. There's a ton of shit that goes on, but basically for most muscles the easiest way to figure out how much hypertrophy will result is the total workload per week at 50-60%+ of your current 1 rep maximum. Essentially, think of it this way: you're doing squats. Your 1 rep maximum is 100lbs. The total workload per week is the number of sets done per week with at least 50lbs on the bar. Say your workouts are like this: Monday: 3 sets of 8 with 50lbs. Wednesday: 1 set of 2 with 90lbs. Friday: 5 sets of 5 with 70lbs. Monday's workload is 1200 (3x8x50), Wednesday's is 180 (2x90), and Friday's is 1750 (5x5x70). Now imagine you changed the Friday workout to be 5 sets of 8 with 50lbs. The weight is lower, but the total workload then becomes 2000lbs. That's kinda the reason workouts go in sets. If you were to try and do a 2000 workload with 1 set you'd end up trying to do 40 squats at a time with 50lbs. or 20 squats of your 1 rep maximum (100lbs.). Well, that obviously doesn't work, so you break them up into sets. So why squat three times per week? Frequency factors into the total workload as well -- imagine doing 1 set of 2 with 80lbs, then 3 sets of 8 with 50lbs, then 5 sets of 5 with 70lbs. You just did the week's workout in one day. Basically, this isn't possible. Your legs will be fried halfway through and you can't complete the week's workload. By getting a day of rest in between you'll allow a higher total workload per week. (Digression: this is one reason why drugs are so potent -- a quicker recovery time means a higher workload can be achieved) Anyway, the reason why doing 15 reps of something will still produce more size is simply mathematics. If you were doing 50lb. squats and started off doing a set of 5, working up to 8, then eventually doing 15 the total workload rises as well. Set of 5: 250 Set of 8: 400 Set of 15: 750 It doesn't work this way forever because of the way muscles function (your total 1 rep maximum will rise, and eventually the 50lbs. will be too light to produce more growth is an easy way to look at it). The cutoff for 1rm and percentages changes with the muscle as well -- smaller muscles tend to get stronger or grow in size more based on lower 1rm percentages than larger muscles. The rectus femoris (big quadricep muscle) might need an intensity of at least 50% of the 1rm to produce growth whereas the brachialis (tiny forearm muscle) might grow from a 20% intensity. It's probably all discombobulated, but I hope this helped.
post #56 of 69
Why why, I'm really impressed. That's your longest post I've ever read! (seriously!)

And about muscles "toning". Think about it guys- muscles can only expand or contract. They either get bigger or smaller. What do you think is happening biologically when you guys think of "toning"?

Don't ever say the word "toning". It doesn't make any sense physiologically. Muscles can either get bigger or smaller. Bigger or smaller.

You want definition? Make your muscles bigger, and make your body fat % smaller.

So if muscles can only get bigger or smaller, it makes sense to do the exercises that get the most "bang for your buck" in terms of getting bigger, which is why prevailing theory says to use high-weight/low reps, because this stressed out your muscles more than low weight/high reps.

remember, bigger or smaller. THERE IS NO TONE.
post #57 of 69
The three rules of any good training program:

1. Frequency, volume, or intensity. Pick two.

2. Incremental progressive resistance.

3. Periodic de-conditioning phases (one week every 6-10 weeks).
post #58 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifersfc View Post
1. Frequency, volume, or intensity. Pick two.

They're all related.

Picking volume and intensity and expecting to make progress by working out for 6 hours once every two weeks obviously won't work.

Picking intensity and frequency makes no sense at all since there's no volume component.

Picking frequency and volume makes no sense since there's no given intensity.

The three are scaled relative to each other based on the program -- one isn't outright ignored.
post #59 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by why View Post
They're all related.

Picking volume and intensity and expecting to make progress by working out for 6 hours once every two weeks obviously won't work.

Picking intensity and frequency makes no sense at all since there's no volume component.

Picking frequency and volume makes no sense since there's no given intensity.

The three are scaled relative to each other based on the program -- one isn't outright ignored.


1. Volume and intensity - Mike Mentzer trains this way with quite a bit of success.
2. Intensity and frequency - I train like this. Compound exercises multiple times per week with sets of 1x5. Throw in some lower weight to keep the volume up a bit.
3. Frequency and volume - HST is pretty much based on high-frequency, high volume workouts, albeit the intensity cycles a bit.
4. I agree that you can't ignore any of these. However, I see many people over-training by emphasizing all three.
post #60 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifersfc View Post
1. Volume and intensity - Mike Mentzer trains this way with quite a bit of success.
2. Intensity and frequency - I train like this. Compound exercises multiple times per week with sets of 1x5. Throw in some lower weight to keep the volume up a bit.
3. Frequency and volume - HST is pretty much based on high-frequency, high volume workouts, albeit the intensity cycles a bit.
4. I agree that you can't ignore any of these. However, I see many people over-training by emphasizing all three.

All these are just guides. When Arnold started, he will do like 30 sets per workout and his training last 2 to 3 hours. Mentzer rationalize training and came up with one set. To the extreme, it was one workout every few months. There is no issue on volume with him. Dorian also did something similar. Only 1 actual set. The rest was warm-up.

Jay and Ronnie seems to be going back to Arnold's ways, and so are tons of the current IFBB pros which is what Flex magazines advocate.

You just need to choose what floats your boat and go for it.
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