My opinion on MTM vs. OTR

I got a couple of MTM suits and a sportcoat last week and was less than satisfied. I have been sitting here wondering why spend the money on MTM in the first place? A MTM suit is assembled for your from an existing pattern. An OTR suit is created from a pattern, then it is disassembled by your tailor and re-assembled to fit. If you have a good tailor (as I did until the ****** retired last week) then why not use the skilled tailor you know, rather than the individuals at a MTM shop?

Also, as far as I can tell, buying an OTR suit and having it tailored extensively is still cheaper than MTM. I'm assuming, of course, that you aren't buying an OTR suit at full price simply because I never have. RLPL suits, for example, can be had for anywhere between $500 and $1000. Extensive tailoring might cost $200. A decent MTM suit is around that price.

I understand the benefits of choosing your fabric, choosing your lining, etc. All of that's fun and all, but in the end you want a suit that fits. If you are buying MTM, you are at the mercy of the guy measuring you in-store. At least with OTR you know what you are dealing with ahead of time.

For me, it will be OTR and a new tailor (when I find one) or full bespoke. I'm not going to deal with MTM again.

Thoughts?

yes.

the only thing i have to add is that with MTM, it's possible to get better measurements the more you order, so that after 2-3 suits you have a "perfect" pattern.

Big A, was the MTM done by a tailor or via a store/label's service?

I.e. - was it something like Isaia MTM or just a tailor's MTM service?

Originally Posted by Big A

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... if you have a good tailor (as I did until the ****** retired last week) then why not use the skilled tailor you know, rather than the individuals at a MTM shop?

... for me, it will be OTR and a new tailor (when I find one) or full bespoke. I'm not going to deal with MTM again.

Thoughts?

Yes, I wasn't happy with MTM either. But bespoke is too expensive (for me).

I will look for a tailor (a chart of Herrschneider was provided by the Schneiderinnung Stuttgart). And then I will get some suits altered. If not: I was also in a store to get needles and yarn. They had sewing maschines. Before loosing my mind with that f*uckers I will learn to alter.

what is the defining characteristic that differentiates MTM and bespoke?

i'm a newbie...and they seem so similar...

In my mind, there are two types of MTM. 1.) Where you're trying to get the best fitting garment while balancing fuss and cost. 2.) You like the brand's RTW models and fit reasonably well in them, but they could be better. Usually these brands have a very distinct look that you want, you just need a few tweaks to make their fit perfect. I generally fall in the category of 2 if I'm looking for MTM.

Black Fleece is a good example of this. I'm right in between their size 0 and size 1, but I'm generally the right proportions for their clothes. If they had an MTM then it could be perfect for me. Spencer Hart is similar, their OTR jackets are slightly too long and sometimes too narrow, but their MTM fixes all that and keeps the look of the original design. The added bonus is that you can use whatever fabric you want, and maybe add a few embellishments or personalizations if you think its necessary. Thick as Thieves is another example, it works so well for people proportioned for the original model, but is not really an MTM for everybody. Jil Sander is another example.

What really bites me these days is price. When you can get some great RTW stuff on deep discount or you are on good terms with the travelling tailors, MTM is sometimes a raw deal (TaT excluded).

Originally Posted by effang

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what is the defining characteristic that differentiates MTM and bespoke?

i'm a newbie...and they seem so similar...

RTW = ready to wear = it is already in the shop and is produced anyways
MTO = made to order = shoes are made to order. You name the last, size, width and the colour --> they produce it
MTM = made to measure = they take the measure, you decide which fabric is used --> they produce it
bespoke = you meet your tailor and talk about your ideas, then you meet several times again to check the fit and get it finished to perfection

Originally Posted by yfyf

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What really bites me these days is price. When you can get some great RTW stuff on deep discount or you are on good terms with the travelling tailors, MTM is sometimes a raw deal (TaT excluded).

I buy MTM less now that I've found a RTW brand that I can get on discount while also fitting better than my MTM.

Originally Posted by Big A

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I got a couple of MTM suits and a sportcoat last week and was less than satisfied. I have been sitting here wondering why spend the money on MTM in the first place? A MTM suit is assembled for your from an existing pattern. An OTR suit is created from a pattern, then it is disassembled by your tailor and re-assembled to fit. If you have a good tailor (as I did until the ****** retired last week) then why not use the skilled tailor you know, rather than the individuals at a MTM shop?

Also, as far as I can tell, buying an OTR suit and having it tailored extensively is still cheaper than MTM. I'm assuming, of course, that you aren't buying an OTR suit at full price simply because I never have. RLPL suits, for example, can be had for anywhere between $500 and $1000. Extensive tailoring might cost $200. A decent MTM suit is around that price.

I understand the benefits of choosing your fabric, choosing your lining, etc. All of that's fun and all, but in the end you want a suit that fits. If you are buying MTM, you are at the mercy of the guy measuring you in-store. At least with OTR you know what you are dealing with ahead of time.

For me, it will be OTR and a new tailor (when I find one) or full bespoke. I'm not going to deal with MTM again.

Thoughts?
- nope.. I agree

Originally Posted by stickonatree

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yes.

the only thing i have to add is that with MTM, it's possible to get better measurements the more you order, so that after 2-3 suits you have a "perfect" pattern.
- until they change their system, this has happened with me in the past..

Also agree 100%. Assuming you're of reasonable size and girth make an effort to find a suit that fits really well off the rack. Then all that is needed is a quick nip and tuck and you've got a great looking suit. Once identified, with a little more effort that model can often be found at a substantial discount. Try that with MTM. As for fabric, a month ago I was flipping through a book at Barney's and, everything I liked, I already had in my closet. Finally, now that the price point of Canali, Corneliani and their ilk are approaching $1,800 and Zegna has crossed the $2,000 threshold, for a few hundred dollars more you could go bespoke.

Originally Posted by Toorman

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Finally, now that the price point of Canali, Corneliani and their ilk are approaching $1,800 and Zegna has crossed the $2,000 threshold, for a few hundred dollars more you could go bespoke.

Well, bespoke prices have gone up, too.

Unless someone has a suggestion for a well-crafted 36 short (Really... try to find one), then I have to stick with MTM. All things being equal, Andy, and I'd tend to agree with you.

Originally Posted by effang

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what is the defining characteristic that differentiates MTM and bespoke?

i'm a newbie...and they seem so similar...

My understanding is that mtm is based off of a standard pattern which is adjusted for your measurements whereas bespoke is based off of a pattern cut only for you.

edit: at least in my experience with respect to mtm, it really is the person measuring that determines whether or not you get a good fit.

I should add that my recent success with RTW is due to excellent tailors. Without a tailor who can turn sleeves, take in pant seats and thighs, and other complicated alterations, I'd stick to MTM.

Originally Posted by ohm

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My understanding is that mtm is based off of a standard pattern which is adjusted for your measurements whereas bespoke is based off of a pattern cut only for you.

edit: at least in my experience with respect to mtm, it really is the person measuring that determines whether or not you get a good fit.
True. Getting good measurements for MTM is key. Interestingly, my MTM suits have all had to have additional alterations after arrival to the store.