Which martial art is most effective for self defense? - Page 2

Not really. I've been in plenty of fights and seen my fair share and the only person ending on the ground in a fight is the loser who got KO'ed.

I'd agree with boxing. I know most fights usually go to the floor, but are often broken up immediately after they do. Know how to throw a good punch and evade one. In addition, boxing is a helluva workout.

He didn't chase you?

forget about knives. I'm more interested in how you get away from people carrying beer bottles outside the bar waiting to smash your head in when you go out. Oh running away means flying beer bottles directed to the back of your head.

This is possibly the more realisitic situation coming out of a korean bar.

I've spent 20 years training one thing or another. Mostly competitive MT, followed by boxing, wrestling, BJJ, some aikido and Krav.

I've been in 100's of ring fights, 1000's of sparring sessions and probably about a dozen "street" fights. I'm not "tough" by any stretch of the imagination, I just enjoyed these as sports as some do basketball or hockey.

From my limited experience here's what I've learned:

1) Strength is massively underrated until you need it. The whole pitch of most martial arts is that you don't have to be strong to win. Ok, that can be true. But strength plus training is dramatically more effective. You'll appreciate this the moment a stronger person takes hold of your wrist and arm, and you find yourself completely unable to break the grip. Not a good feeling.

2) Most fights do not end up on the ground. Ok so I'm not a bouncer or a cop who has been in 100s of street fights. Those that I have been in, never once ended up on the ground. Almost all were over within 10 seconds and were ended by standing submissions (e.g., choking or wrist locks) or punching/kneeing. I believe its imperative to learn basic wrestling and basic bjj for submissions. Ground work is important if for anything balance and feeling comfortable when you cant see your oponenet.

3) Know the basics. Breathing, punching while moving forwards and backwards, footwork, how to fall, how to cover up, how to control someones movements. The rest is embellishment. The poster who mentioned black belts who couldn't throw a punch with force, or tripped over themselves is correct. Few who haven't competitively fought understand the importance of footwork and breathing. If you can't fight while moving backwards or forwards, dont worry about which MA is the "best" get the basics down first.

4) Whatever you learn, learn it briefly, then train the hell out of it. This is what I like about Wrestling, boxing, and MT. you can learn all the basic techniques in 4-6 months without too much trouble. But you'll spend years training it through full contact sparring. This is essential for you to get muscle memory, and lose the fear of being hit/held/etc. As the earlier poster said, if they don't have you fighting the style routinely, skip it. This is where I had a problem with Krav and aikido. I couldn't use the thumb of death technique (sarcasm) ever. It was all staged and emulated. It became pointless for anything I learned past the first 2 months.

5) Start with class settings. If you find you have an aptitude for a style, train it with a private coach. Class settings pay for the gym, the lights, and for amatuer and pro fighters to use the facility. The main point of the class is to work you out, help the trainer develop a decent routine for students, and keep the place from being sued (again, some sarcasm). When you train with a coach one on one, you will learn 10x faster.

And if you think for a moment you'll ever need to disarm somebody with a knife, learn escrima and practice on dead pig hides. The best way to deal with a knife beyond running or creating massive distance is to be much more efficient with a blade.

In a standard bar/street fight where you can see your opponent coming, boxing. It will end the fight as quickly as possible.

BJJ is very useful if you are ambushed. I was reading the Washington Post's recent serial story on the Chandra Levy murder. The story strongly implied that the culprit was an illegal immigrant who attacked several women from behind on a jogging path in Rock Creek Park. If any of these women knew BJJ, they easily could have neutralized this guy's attack and broken his arm.

I haven't boxed, but I'd say boxing or any martial art where you learn how to take a punch and keep going. I don't know if most fights end on the ground, but I think you have a better chance of not being the guy left on the ground if you can take one or two punches some guy manages to land on you without dropping to the floor or waiting for sensei to call a point.

I loled. Priceless.

You have made some great points. But I still disagree with you here. I remember when I was talking to a friend of mine who was a cop about martial arts. He said if you are going to learn any learn BJJ because every fight ends up on the ground. I ignored his advice because it did not make sense to me.

First, I am not a tough guy at all. I remember witnessing fights after and paying attention details that most people ignore because they are too busy screaming and wincing at what the loser is going through. Usually the way it ended was they started off throwing haymakers and losing balance and falling into each other. Ending up in a clinch and then they luckier person landing on top and beating the other badly. I am talking about fights where people are not there to break it up for whatever reason. Those are the fights that inspired me into cross training with BJJ.

After cross training and getting into the few altercations I have been in the only reason why I did not get taken to the ground by my other inexperienced opponent was because I learned a good sprawl from BJJ. I was able to stay on my feet where I was more comfortable and fight in a clinch throwing elbows and knees until the person decided they wanted no more.

if you have boxed or any combat which you get tons of punches thrown your way by people who know how to punch. when some drunk guy at the bar tries to swing at you, you can realistically get 3 clean shots off by the time he even knows what hit him. most people have no idea how to punch and swing like theres no tomorrow.

You people aren't realistic. You mention the one drunk guy trying to start a fight but more often than not it's not just 1 guy, and his friends and him are not always drunk. Whatever martial art you learn it's useless when there's more than 2 guys and they're carrying whatever is nearest them (usually a beer bottle) trying to smash your head in.

Don't also be naive and say that these things won't happen at nice place because all that are required for situations like this is: they outnumber you, alcohol, lack of women, and testosterone. All easily found in most places.

You could be right. This topic appears to be one of those things that's hard to quantify. It wasn't until I met the Royce Gracie (first met them at a party in topanga canyon of all places) in the very early 1990's that I heard that expression; " all fights end up on the ground". I challenged him on it then, saying that the fights that ended up on the ground were because

A) someone pulled/pushed the other guy down

B) somebody was inebriated

C) one of the guys went way off balance because he couldn't control himself when throwing a punch swinging a chain, etc, or

D) there were obstacles in the immediate area causing people to trip over.

In these situations, the only one that really qualifies the statement of "fights end up on the ground" is A. The others don't necessitate both people being on the ground in a clinch or ride. Just because one person falls, trips or passes out doesn't mean there is real fighting on the group - therefore its a self-serving overstatement. He kinda had to agree.

Having said that, and having wrestled (and trained BJJ after that) indeed some altercations do result in rolling around on the ground. But for the most part, from what I've, its typically not a "fight" on the ground. To your point, someone knew how to sprawl properly and controlled another person's movement, a result of a series of blows, or tripping.

I'm not saying not to train in - quite the contrary, just that conventional wisdom isn't necessarily true. Before the Gracies, it seemed that everyone repeated whatever Dan Insanto spewed out. I have to wonder if its not the same thing with BJJ.

I think that everyone agrees that the most important skill to have when facing multiple attackers and/or weapons is a low time in the 40-yard dash.

If running is not an option, messing up one guy good can lead his friends to back off.

The Best art to study is MMA.
You should learn all aspects of fighting and with the advancements in MMA today no one can disagree. Our military use parts of it as well as the police.
It's hard in my oipnion to find a good school but I am lucky here in DC .

Let me give you an example

For all those who skated in the 70's layed the ground work for the guys who skated in the 80's who laid the ground work for the 90's to the present day skater who does stupid tricks that people in the 70's and 80's couldnt even dream up.
The same goes with martial arts . MMA has the abilty to translate to anyone how to become the best possible fighter where 10 years ago it was really unheard of because Martial arts in general was so linear. I am not good with words so I hope my example was good enough for you to understand.
In fighting terms GSP and Anderson Silva are two of the most amazing fighters only because of evolution. There is no way a Royce Gracie , Bruce Lee , Carlos Newton could ever beat them.
Not because they don't have mad skills but the fact the MMA is at a level where it has never been before.
For the person who started this thread if you like to get your ass kicked learn MMA

How about Chuck Norris?

I kid.