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Are Bench presses overrated? - Page 4

post #46 of 80
Bench press is a classic conditioning exercise. Almost all sports involve pressing movements, hence the military and bench presses in training programs.

If you think it's solely for aesthetics you're just wrong.
post #47 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by why View Post
Bench press is a classic conditioning exercise. Almost all sports involve pressing movements, hence the military and bench presses in training programs.

If you think it's solely for aesthetics you're just wrong.

Military press is awesome.

Bench Press: I'm not suggesting it's solely for aesthetics, but there is an alternative (weighted dips) and I do wonder about the functionality of bench pressing in carryover to ther sports. Other than wrestlers (on their back), who lays down and presses upward? A football lineman or a basketball power forward certainly would press outward in their sports, but almost all of the "press" would come from the much more powerful lower body/core.
post #48 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayland View Post
Bench Press: I'm not suggesting it's solely for aesthetics, but there is an alternative (weighted dips) and I do wonder about the functionality of bench pressing in carryover to ther sports. Other than wrestlers (on their back), who lays down and presses upward? A football lineman or a basketball power forward certainly would press outward in their sports, but almost all of the "press" would come from the much more powerful lower body/core.

But not all of it does, and that's why bench press is still used. Weighted dips tend to be too stressful on the joints and provide no benefit over bench press yet have a lot of drawbacks.

There's a lot of personal bias in this forum.
post #49 of 80
I appreciate your argument, although we're both showing our bias - let's be serious. There are many lifters out there with shoulder issues from bench pressing
post #50 of 80
Because a lot more lifters bench press. Dips (like all exercises with the shoulders rounded forward -- upright rows are in this category as well) open the acromion process to a greater degree. Besides, when I mentioned joint stress I meant the loading on the labrum and glenoid fossa more than problems from subcoracoid impingement. I don't do either. I'm a fat kid. I have no bias. I'd consider dumbbell tricep presses to be superior to dips, anyway. At the very least they're easier to use to measure progress.
post #51 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by why View Post
Because a lot more lifters bench press.

Dips (like all exercises with the shoulders rounded forward -- upright rows are in this category as well) open the acromion process to a greater degree. Besides, when I mentioned joint stress I meant the loading on the labrum and glenoid fossa more than problems from subcoracoid impingement.

I don't do either. I'm a fat kid. I have no bias.

I'd consider dumbbell tricep presses to be superior to dips, anyway. At the very least they're easier to use to measure progress.

I agree with you about upright rows. They always hurt my shoulders. Weighted dips, regular dips, rings dip, don't hurt me at all.

Why, I always appreciate your insight. You seem to have some knowledge in the area. Unfortunately, you lay down the law as though it's the definitive answer. If you have the perfect program, let us know. I'll try it out.
post #52 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayland View Post
I agree with you about upright rows. They always hurt my shoulders. Weighted dips, regular dips, rings dip, don't hurt me at all.

Why, I always appreciate your insight. You seem to have some knowledge in the area. Unfortunately, you lay down the law as though it's the definitive answer. If you have the perfect program, let us know. I'll try it out.

I just critique stuff.

In regards to 'functionality' of dips vs. bench press, is there really an argument there? Bench press doesn't use bodyweight and is therefore easier to measure, it loads muscles pretty evenly compared to weighted dips, stresses joints less, and is much easier to account for anthropometric differences with. That's without mentioning using chains and bands and stuff with bench press is far, far easier, as well as the practicality of loading heavy with it (really, who wears 100+ pounds of weights to do 3 dips?).

The only issue of 'functionality' with weighted dips over bench press is that bodyweight is a factor...which, in the end, amounts to nothing since to the muscles it's just increased load. It kinda reminds me of the people you see at health food stores buying organic granola and are still fat because of it (but it's organic!).
post #53 of 80
When I speak of functionality, I mean in regards to how an exercise or motion either assists with or mimics everyday movements. I can think of very few instances where people are laying on their back pushing up. The dip is copied every time we get out of a chair. I realize no one uses perfect dip form getting out of a chair, but it's almost the same movement and same muscles.

In regards to dips stressing the joints more than bench presses: can you provide any proof of that? We both know that many long-time bench pressers suffer shoulder issues. I agree with you that many more people do bench presses than dips, but where are the chronically sore dippers? Just as many "experts" say squats ruin knees, but we both know that's bunk.

That said: the bench press is a good exercise and should be included in most workouts. Much better than flyes or push-ups. It also gives men the pecs they desire (which helps them get laid, apparently). I'd be a fool to think the bench press as a test (you lift? how much do you bench?) is going away.

I've always been more of a go guy, rather than a show guy. Looking good is the by-product of my working out; my real goal is to be able to do whatever I want to do athletically.
post #54 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayland View Post
When I speak of functionality, I mean in regards to how an exercise or motion either assists with or mimics everyday movements. I can think of very few instances where people are laying on their back pushing up.

Just because the movement isn't duplicated exactly, doesn't mean you don't use those muscles in closely related functions. How many times do you place something heavy on your back and squat ass to the ground? To use a football related example, a linemen would use his legs to drive himself forward while also pushing the opposing player with his arms. There isn't a lift that will exactly duplicate that motion, but both squat and bench help the linemen more effectively do his job.
post #55 of 80
Incline Neutral grip dumbell press works inner chest like no other exercise.
post #56 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nil View Post
There isn't a lift that will exactly duplicate that motion, but both squat and bench help the linemen more effectively do his job.
Good point, but my gym actually has a machine that does that very thing. No one uses it (I've never even used it), but it very similar in design to what you often see college/pro lineman using: from a half squat, you explode up and you push up with your arms; kinda of a squat press except you're pushing away from you. It's plate loaded and looks like it was designed for football players. Exactly mimics the motion an offensive lineman would make at the snap of the ball. My gym is a typical globo-gym, though, and it never gets used. Here's the link: http://us.commercial.lifefitness.com/content.cfm/jammer My original point wasn't that the BP is a bad exercise; just that it's a distant third to the squat and deadlift in terms of strength development. Unfortunately, it's the top exercise for 80% of all lifters. Benches at my gym are always busy. Squat racks are always free (unless there is some guy doing curls in them).
post #57 of 80
Deadlift. Squat. Bench Press. (weighted) Chin-up. Nuff said.
post #58 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayland View Post
My original point wasn't that the BP is a bad exercise; just that it's a distant third to the squat and deadlift in terms of strength development. Unfortunately, it's the top exercise for 80% of all lifters. Benches at my gym are always busy. Squat racks are always free (unless there is some guy doing curls in them).

Then we're in complete agreement. I'm actually thankful squat racks are empty so often; gyms tend to have far fewer of them than benches, so if people actually squatted, it'd get annoying have to wait for one.
post #59 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayland View Post
Good point, but my gym actually has a machine that does that very thing. No one uses it (I've never even used it), but it very similar in design to what you often see college/pro lineman using: from a half squat, you explode up and you push up with your arms; kinda of a squat press except you're pushing away from you. It's plate loaded and looks like it was designed for football players. Exactly mimics the motion an offensive lineman would make at the snap of the ball. My gym is a typical globo-gym, though, and it never gets used. Here's the link: http://us.commercial.lifefitness.com/content.cfm/jammer

My original point wasn't that the BP is a bad exercise; just that it's a distant third to the squat and deadlift in terms of strength development. Unfortunately, it's the top exercise for 80% of all lifters. Benches at my gym are always busy. Squat racks are always free (unless there is some guy doing curls in them).


Ah, the dreaded jammer. I hated that the models that we used werent adjustable at all, so I could never really get my legs into is as much as I should have because my legs were too short.
post #60 of 80
So, Forkit still hasn't been banned yet I see.
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