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Matching stripes on suits

post #1 of 27
5/18/04 at 5:48pm
Thread Starter 
Matching stripes on suits Why don't the stripes on RTW / MTM suits match? I mean, when charging several thousand on a suit, wouldn't the stripes matching be a priority for sartorial companies? I mean who cares how much handwork went into the jacket if outside it looks like horribly misaligned? And top everything off, most companies do match the stripes on the rear collar and the back of the jacket, but somehow seem to miss matching the stripes where the lapels meet the collar and where the shoulder meets the sleeve. Now, maybe its me, but when I meet somebody, I face them with my face turns towards them, thus it would make sense that the stripes in the front of the suit, i.e. what most people see, should match and if it is possible to match the rear, the more the better. Is there a standard for matching lines?Would it not benefit manufactures to match lines at the front rather than at the rear? They could even use it as a marketing gimmick. Jon. P.S. hopefully I made sense, if not I can post pics.
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post #2 of 27
5/18/04 at 5:56pm
I've seen stripe suits where the stripes on the lapels matches with stripes on the collar, and where the stripes on the lapels actually run perfectly horizontally instead of being angled with the lapel -- IT LOOKS HORRIBLE. It really looks like you just lied down on a bench with wet paint and rolled around (remember that Mentos commercial?).
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post #3 of 27
5/18/04 at 5:58pm
I agree that It does get my attention when the lines dont meet up together, But think of this.  In a striped suit you run the risk of the look being too Stripey almost like a maze,  and I wonder if that misalignment doesnt break it up a bit... Imagine a 6+ footer with pronounced stripes totally aligned, that would only serve to make the stripes more pronounced so maybe thats why they do it like that.  Sort of giving a pattern as well to a striped suit... Just a possibility. CM
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post #4 of 27
5/18/04 at 6:04pm
Thread Starter 
Perhaps I'll be more precise. I don't mean to change the classic look of the jacket, but when a suit is made using the traditional stripe matching / placement method it will look great, nay it will look right. This suit from the NM website (Corneliani) looks wrong: If the lines were to match, it would make me: Jon.
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post #5 of 27
5/18/04 at 6:09pm
Jon: It would be impossible to match in that area.  Think of it...The angle in which the fabric is cut will natuarally make the distance from one stripe to the second stripe longer, therefore even if you started on the first line aligned unless you cut a new small strip for every line you will be off as the collar gets wider. Am I making myself clear here? JJF EDITING: What I mean to say is that around the neck if it would be your preferred way Jon, you would have stripes that dont point into the neck but rather run alongside the neck. WOuld you really be then?
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post #6 of 27
5/18/04 at 6:21pm
Thread Starter 
I will put aside two distinct facts: One) some stripes are designed with a certain width / distance from one another that they are impossible to perfectly match, though it is possible to get close. Two) I have seen bespoke suits where all the stripes match, except on some the rear collar and back stripes did not match, I guess it is the price paid for allowing the front to match. Now, I took a piece of paper and drew 6 lines equidistance from each other and then cut the paper into two, and tried to match the lines the same way they look where the lapel meets the collar, but was unable to do so. Until' I slightly curved the two pieces of paper to mimic where the two items meet, and the 3 lines matched almost perfectly. And I did this in two minutes. Since the lapel has both a roll and upward curve towards the collar, it easier to manipulate the position of the lines in a three-dimensional space than in a 2-dimensional space. Jon.
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post #7 of 27
5/18/04 at 7:15pm
Image, I agree that the Corneliani stripes could be improved in two ways: First, the stripes going down the sleeves could be moved over to the right .25 inches, so that it would perfectly line up with the stripes on the shoulders. Second, the stripes on the collar could be moved over to the right .25 inches so that it would "meet" with the stripes on the lapels, albeit at an angle. Is this what you mean?
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post #8 of 27
5/18/04 at 7:35pm
Quote:
Image, I agree that the Corneliani stripes could be improved in two ways:  First, the stripes going down the sleeves could be moved over to the right .25 inches, so that it would perfectly line up with the stripes on the shoulders.  Second, the stripes on the collar could be moved over to the right .25 inches so that it would "meet" with the stripes on the lapels, albeit at an angle.   Is this what you mean?
Matching collar stripe to lapels is, as you can tell from the posts in this thread, liked by some and not by others. From a technical point of view I can tell you that the stripes do not lend themselves to match from the collar to the lapel without forcing the fabric into a position that is not natural to it. This may look good for a time, but with wear the fabric will want to go back to its orginal shape. Furthermore, as far as bespoke suits are concerned, the distance from the back neck to the lapel can vary easch side depending on if the wearer has a low shoulder or not. Sothe stripe from the collar will hit the lapel at a different position. Hope this helps.
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post #9 of 27
5/18/04 at 7:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Image, I agree that the Corneliani stripes could be improved in two ways: First, the stripes going down the sleeves could be moved over to the right .25 inches, so that it would perfectly line up with the stripes on the shoulders. Second, the stripes on the collar could be moved over to the right .25 inches so that it would "meet" with the stripes on the lapels, albeit at an angle. Is this what you mean?
I mean like this: BTW: I did this on MS Paint in 30 seconds, so you know...don't make fun of my CG skills. Jon.
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post #10 of 27
5/18/04 at 8:04pm
If you want all the stripes to match buy one of those pimp suits from Stacy Adams, Zanetti, or any other company that caters to that profession. All their stripes match up perfectly. The point is, strips aren't supposed to match. As someone pointed out earlier, it looks tacky when they do, plus the geometry dosn't work out either.
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post #11 of 27
5/18/04 at 8:44pm
There is an Ask Andy thread about this from maybe 2-3 weeks back, tops. None other than Leonard Logsdail, a highly vaunted bespoke tailor, recommended against pattern matching at the lapels for the vary reasons given here: It generally sacrifices matching stripes at the back of the neck, and it forces the fabric into a position that is unnatural and unsustainable over time. I tend to agree though with ImageWIS that the sleeve-shoulder connection could/should be matched if possible. Is there a tailor around that can comment on the difficulty of or time consumed by pattern matching at the shoulder?
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post #12 of 27
5/18/04 at 9:14pm
Quote:
Quote:
Image, I agree that the Corneliani stripes could be improved in two ways:  First, the stripes going down the sleeves could be moved over to the right .25 inches, so that it would perfectly line up with the stripes on the shoulders.  Second, the stripes on the collar could be moved over to the right .25 inches so that it would "meet" with the stripes on the lapels, albeit at an angle.   Is this what you mean?
Matching collar stripe to lapels is, as you can tell from the posts in this thread, liked by some and not by others.  From a technical point of view I can tell you that the stripes do not lend themselves to match from the collar to the lapel without forcing the fabric into a position that is not natural to it.  This may look good for a time, but with wear the fabric will want to go back to its orginal shape. Furthermore, as far as bespoke suits are concerned, the distance from the back neck to the lapel can vary easch side depending on if the wearer has a low shoulder or not.  Sothe stripe from the collar will hit the lapel at a different position. Hope this helps.
With all do respect, Len, your argument makes absolutely no sense. Since the collar is its own entity, the fabric doesn't have to be "forced" into any particular position. Aesthetics aside, the Corneliani could have easily had stripe matching like Image desires -- which, by the way Image, is exactly like how I imagined you desired it. I disagree that the way Image desires the stripes to match is tacky like a Stacey Adams suit (hah, I only thought they made tacky shoes). While I may personally dislike what Image is going for (I'm really agnostic), I don't think you can compare what he's going for to a suit that has all the stripes running perpendicular to the ground.
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post #13 of 27
5/18/04 at 9:56pm
Sounds like we have a few burgeoning tailors amongst our midst... Apologies for the smart aleck remark. You may proceed.
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post #14 of 27
5/18/04 at 10:31pm
I am by no means a tailor and would never wish to imply otherwise but I'm probably a better than average with a thimble and thread and sewing around a curve it is definately not easy to match everything up unless you forced it... the stripes in the back of the collar typically meet the stripes down the back and then it will spread out and get mismatched due to the angles. The collar is both rounded and folded over and fabric has a bit of it's own opinion on how it will or won't behave. So in my mind the question is: A. Come as close to matching as you can without stretching the fabric and have many 'near misses' - to me that looks like you tried and failed. B. Pick one area to match and let the curves and angles of the fabric in it's natural state dictate how mismatched they are elsewhere. ...I sorta favor the second idea. The first would tend to get you stretching the fabric on one side and having it slack on the other I think. Again - rudimentary skill would be overstating my own ability with the needle so I'll defer to those who know what the heck they are doing
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post #15 of 27
5/18/04 at 10:37pm
Quote:
I am by no means a tailor and would never wish to imply otherwise but I'm probably a better than average with a thimble and thread and sewing around a curve it is definately not easy to match everything up unless you forced it...  the stripes in the back of the collar typically meet the stripes down the back and then it will spread out and get mismatched due to the angles.  The collar is both rounded and folded over and fabric has a bit of it's own opinion on how it will or won't behave. So in my mind the question is: A.  Come as close to matching as you can without stretching the fabric and have many 'near misses' - to me that looks like you tried and failed. B.  Pick one area to match and let the curves and angles of the fabric in it's natural state dictate how mismatched they are elsewhere. ...I sorta favor the second idea.  The first would tend to get you stretching the fabric on one side and having it slack on the other I think. Again - rudimentary skill would be overstating my own ability with the needle so I'll defer to  those who know what the heck they are doing
In the end, I would say that it is (1) physically possible to have the stripes match at the collar/lapel without forcing it, but (2) the degree of forcing required will depend on sheer mathematics -- how spaced are the stripes, and how wide is the collar from point to point.
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