Exotic Cars on the Street

Originally Posted by fritzl

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The XF looks like a Ford Mondeo, at least the European version. It does not look like a Jag at all.
That was supposedly Jag's plan when replacing the S-type, they wanted something that was nontraditional in the sense, considering they still had the XJ8 in the line up.

The last thing they needed was another poor planned execution like the X-type.

Originally Posted by Huntsman

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Meh. I don't know -- seems like something to break. Regardless, I prefer Jags without either the paddles or a J. I would like to see another XF for more than the 2 second glimpse the last one gave me though....it looks very interesting....
But the way the shifter rises up when the engine starts.....is nothing less than cool.

But you're probably right, it will eventually break.

Less than a mile and one-half from my house is Symbolic Motor Cars in La Jolla. So, there are always exotic cars on the road around my little neighborhood. Alas, my cell phone doesn't have a camera.

Today, in the tiny annex on the south-side: three Bugatti Veyrons (2 burgundy/black and 1 all black) a Spyker C8 convertible (silver), the central showroom is full of Rolls-Royce and Bentley cars, while the northern-most showroom is stuffed with new Lamborghini and Lotus cars.

The relatively hidden back showroom has two beautiful 1949 cars: a Ferrari 166 Mille Miglia Barchetta and an Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 SS. A mystery 289 Cobra (much prettier than the 427s) and a Saleen S7 sit nearby.

___

Anything that isn't a true H shifter = soulless.

And that's my 2 cents.

Originally Posted by bkk

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Anything that isn't a true H shifter = soulless.

And that's my 2 cents.


No GT3 RSR for you then.

Originally Posted by Roikins

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No GT3 RSR for you then.

I hope the poster was referring to street cars, because lots of race cars would be soulless. But I don't think the lack of a H-pattern gearbox makes a street car soulless either.

--Andre

Originally Posted by Andre Yew

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I hope the poster was referring to street cars, because lots of race cars would be soulless. But I don't think the lack of a H-pattern gearbox makes a street car soulless either.

--Andre


Yep, I think sequential gearboxes are actually a nice development and evolution for street cars, sort of like disc or anti-lock brakes, neither of which I think made street cars soulless.

Originally Posted by Roikins

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Yep, I think sequential gearboxes are actually a nice development and evolution for street cars, sort of like disc or anti-lock brakes, neither of which I think made street cars soulless.

Disc brakes, however, didn't take any control away from the driver. With sequential boxes, you can't work the clutch. Also, they do tend to brake when you work them hard (as Topgear as demonstrated over and over again).

I would really miss my clutch.

Let me ask you a question, do you like electronic throttles and automatic transmissions too?

My Doctor's Ferrari at the hospital:



Here's the thread.

If the driving aid makes me faster, safer, and lets me concentrate on the important things (eg. it's unobtrusive, and not noticeable), then I'm all for it. Most slushbox ******** are not unobtrusive compared to a decent manual gearbox. And not all driving aids are implemented equally well.

Often people confuse the method of control (eg. paddles, H-pattern gearbox, or a sequential shift stick) with the actual method of gear-engine coupling (eg. torque converter, clutch, computer-controlled clutch). You can combine any control method with any gear coupling.

So you have most automatics that is either controlled with PRND321, or maybe some paddles or buttons on the steering wheel to control a torque converter gearbox. You also have things like Ferrari F1, BMW SMG, or the Audi DSG which uses paddles/buttons/stick to specify the gear, and uses computer-controlled clutches. What makes each terrible is caused in part by the technology chosen (torque converters aren't generally great for performance) and in part by implementation.

So sequential gearboxes can still use clutches. Many racers don't even use the clutch once the car is started, as they just shift while the clutch is still engaged. People who have nursed a car home with a stuck clutch will also brag about how they have done this.

Electronic throttles in and of themselves are neither good nor bad. There are good and bad implementations of it. The first drive-by-wire 3-series weren't very good. The Cayman's DBW is very fine. The throttle mapping can be customized to exactly what the car engineer wants, and if they know what they're doing, can give you an even better driving experience than a cable throttle.

--Andre

Southampton this weekend

I haven't seen a Z8 in so long.

Originally Posted by Andre Yew

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If the driving aid makes me faster, safer, and lets me concentrate on the important things (eg. it's unobtrusive, and not noticeable), then I'm all for it. Most slushbox ******** are not unobtrusive compared to a decent manual gearbox. And not all driving aids are implemented equally well.

Often people confuse the method of control (eg. paddles, H-pattern gearbox, or a sequential shift stick) with the actual method of gear-engine coupling (eg. torque converter, clutch, computer-controlled clutch). You can combine any control method with any gear coupling.

So you have most automatics that is either controlled with PRND321, or maybe some paddles or buttons on the steering wheel to control a torque converter gearbox. You also have things like Ferrari F1, BMW SMG, or the Audi DSG which uses paddles/buttons/stick to specify the gear, and uses computer-controlled clutches. What makes each terrible is caused in part by the technology chosen (torque converters aren't generally great for performance) and in part by implementation.

So sequential gearboxes can still use clutches. Many racers don't even use the clutch once the car is started, as they just shift while the clutch is still engaged. People who have nursed a car home with a stuck clutch will also brag about how they have done this.

Electronic throttles in and of themselves are neither good nor bad. There are good and bad implementations of it. The first drive-by-wire 3-series weren't very good. The Cayman's DBW is very fine. The throttle mapping can be customized to exactly what the car engineer wants, and if they know what they're doing, can give you an even better driving experience than a cable throttle.

--Andre
Meh, I like to work my own clutch (hydraulically, I don't know any even half decent car that uses a cable clutch), feel the road through the wheel, and I want my mistakes to bite a little. Don't worry, I'm not one of those that gets confused between the control mechanism, gear system and clutch system.

Of course, for a powerful car I'd want all the traction control and stability control, but I'd also want to be able to turn it down or off if I want to be a little silly on the track.

I don't think I would ever buy a car with a torque converter. I imagine one day I'll have a car with a sequential box, but I'd rather my weekend car had a stick shift. Right now, my Integra works as a day drive and a weekender quite well... except it died on me on Saturday night. That was a long cold night getting it towed home.

Originally Posted by Connemara

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I haven't seen a Z8 in so long.

I saw an original Z8 (as opposed to the Alpina version) a month or so ago looking forlorn in a shopping mall parking lot. It was really dirty, and was pretty obviously not well-treated. Very sad.

--Andre