these doc martens I got for cheap - Page 4

Forum member johnpemberton sells the made-in-UK DM vintage line on Ebay. Check out his B&S thread.

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Might be a stupid question GS, but want to give us a quick overview of the whole skinhead ideology? Talking about generally the non-white supremacist bullshit. Things like political views/culture/"activities" and that kind of stuff. Before coming to the forum I too would of made the skinhead = racist connection, but am interested to read about them. Any good internet links?

I used to front a ska/hardcore band and had several pairs of Docs. 10-hole Cherry's, 10-hole Black's, and 8-hole Plaid's (Bosstones-style). Although I looked a bit "skin" with plenty of Fred Perry polos, Harrington jackets, and a '67 Vespa, I didn't identify myself as one. Just a ska and mod subculture fan. I never had any negative run-ins due to my boots - from skins or anyone else. I think that you'll be fine if you want to wear them. Honestly, most people outside of the scene see them and think more "Eddie Vedder" than "Skrewdriver" - provided that you're not wearing the whole getup. Anyway, in a fit of nostalgia, I picked up a pair of China-made Cherry Doc's last year. I was stunned with how bad the quality was. The England Docs weren't fantastic quality or anything, but the China ones were awful. Like something from Steve Madden. I tried my hardest to break the suckers in, but gave up after a month or so. My boots from back in the day were no problem. I'm pretty tempted by the new re-issues, but has anyone actually bought them? Care to comment on how good they are? If they're like the original Docs, then I'll definitely get a new pair.

The MIEs are pretty good. I got a pair of the cherry 1461s when they first came out and I wear them several times a week.

they color is more the OG cherry red than i have experienced with the MIC versions and there was NO painful break in with them. I know, they're only 3 holes so there's none of that shin cracking that goes on with the boots but they just feel SOOOOOO much better than the MIC ones. it's probably 90% in my head but I would def. say they're worth the extra $.

I'm looking at some of the vintage collection 1460s for fall/winter.

that's a tough question to answer. ask 10 "skinheads" and you get a variety of answers and cliched slogans. There's no ideology per se. You hear so many cheap slogans like "skinheads have working class pride, and value honor, dignity, pride etc etc" blah blah. Terrible soundbites that mean nothing. the historical answer is that skinheads were the next evolution of mods....there were guys during the mod heyday that had shorter hair and were a tougher breed, and the term "hard mod" got used. then when most mods evolved with the 60s and became hippy scum, there were plenty that still had their mod ethos intact and became the first "skinheads". They werent even called skinheads at first, the US GI term "peanuts" or "spykids" were actually used first but skinhead is what eventually stuck. Sartorially, it was similar...more pared down than mod with the addition of Doc martens for day wear, brogues/loafers for evening wear...but def a reaction against the hippy/swinging London trend. The racist element took hold during skinhead's punk rebirth of the late 70s when the National Front started courting racialist skinheads as footsoldiers, since it was easy to blame their poor economy on blacks and pakistanis. music is as important as the look. There should be copious amounts of northern soul, motown, 60s ska/skinhead reggae, punk, oi, hardcore listened to. American skins tend to listen to more hardcore than European skins, since "our" scene started off in the hardcore scene of the early 80s rather than the ska/reggae of the 60s British skins. But there's still a lot of uber traditionals that only listen to ska/soul and look down on punk and oi. I grew up with punk/oi so I'm a huge fan of the whole range. Personally I prefer 60s soul to 60s ska/reggae, which gets a bit boring for me. Politics...of course there are politics involved but that's each person's own business and I've never thought politics and skinhead should mix. btw, these are just *my* opinions. they're by no means the last word. Hard to believe "skinhead" has gone on for 40 years now

care to reveal what band?

NYCs has/had some great bands...Templars, Oxblood, Unruly, Urban Riot

Dunno if you heard/saw The Dansettes? they arent around anymore but it was 3 gals singing to a hammond groove soul/jazz sound. great stuff, too bad they broke up.

The movie This Is England covers this period. I saw it a while back and enjoyed it.

the best movie I've ever seen skinhead portrayed is 16 Years of Alcohol, a UK film that went unseen, starring Kevin McKidd (Trainspotting, The Journeyman) the director used to be a skinhead and sang for a band so he used a lot of his own personal experiences within the film the detail to clothing, music, their behavior...it's all very realistic and not sensationalized (like Romper Stomper) "This is England" was good...something about it felt flat and there were too many loose ends. I actually liked the Combo character...he is def accurate of the 80s racialist skin, who wasnt a hatemonger but had some beliefs that were mired in frustration and it ended up manifesting itself in the only way he (and his ilk) could feel he had power/control over.

[quote=Get Smart;1192188]
Personally I prefer 60s soul to 60s ska/reggae, which gets a bit boring for me.
QUOTE]

GASP! how dare you!

yeah, i was wondering about what band Epaulet fronted as well. although I am more of the soul/ska/reggae scene than the HC/Oi side.

Sure, it was a band called "2000 Flushes." We were based in PA - where we all went to school. You can still buy our CD on Amazon for about $2. Not that I'm recommending it. There's quite a few reasons why it's good that I'm no longer singing. At least outside of karaoke.

I saw quite a few of those bands at the old Oi/Skampalation parties. Always had a good time, although I preferred later ska (Toasters, Mephiskapheles, MU330) and hardcore (SOIA, Judge, GB).

Out of all those acts, I probably miss Mephiskapheles the most. They put on the best shows that I can remember.

Wait, but weren't mods the well-dressed Vespa riding dudes who loved their double-breasted tailored suits and what not? How did skinheads grow from that?

BTW, I don't know much about mods or anything, I'm just speaking from what I saw in internet vids and sites and Quadrophenia.

um yea....and skinheads were/are well dressed doods in sharp suits with american longwing brogues riding on vespas too, at least the proper ones. there are plenty that never venture beyond fred perry shirts, harrington or MA-1 jackets, jeans and docs. I think a sharp well sussed skinhead looks a lot smarter than a mod, who can often adopt some swirly sartorial details that I dont jive with and they listened to the same music, black soul & R&B music, altho skinheads adopted west indian ska/reggae as their primary beat.

As I understand it, working class mods who couldn't afford the latest fashion made do with clothes that suited their lifestyle. Then these guys later became known as skinheads.

The original skinhead cult was severely dedicated to having the "right gear". Stuff like Ben Sherman shirts which were expensive and not easy to come by. Plenty of anecdotes from original skins talking about how they saved up to buy 1 Ben Sherman, and it might be the only one they had for a while so it would get worn to shreds. Even when "making do" the labels that were worn were very specific. So if a fella couldnt afford Ben Sherman, he would get something like Brutus or Jaytex. Ironically, it's a very brand conscious scene considering its working class roots. But that's a big part of it, you have working class kids that wanted to look a bit "upper class" so having pride in your appearance was a big deal, which often meant having the right shoes, shirt, etc. But yea, I suppose a lot of guys did have to 'make do' with what they could afford. even in the 80s/90s there've always been hardcore purists that had to have selvedge Levis since that is what the originals wore back in the day. An obsession with authenticity, tradition and detail has always been a big part of mod/skinhead. There's a great bit in "The Look", where the legendary John Simon talks about how when the American longwing brogues were sold at The Ivy Shop, skinhead/mod types would queue up for them since they were a prized footwear possession and guys would leave the shop with the wrong size, just because they wanted a pair and theirs' was sold out.