Should the cost of bespoke include being able to keep your cutting pattern?

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You're buying a garment, not the cutting pattern. You're welcome to try to negotiate a different deal, but market is buying the garment and no pattern. I'm not so sure what you mean by "should" as I don't see a moral issue with not keeping the pattern.

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Tailors consider the pattern their intellectual property. They might give it to as a souveneir if they are cleaning out their shop, and you haven't ordered in a while (I am speculating here) but as a matter of course, they do not consider the pattern yours, but theirs.

In any case, having the pattern is not likely to do you any good, as I don't know any tailor who work off of another's pattern. Most would probably take that as an insult.

Originally Posted by Manton

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Tailors consider the pattern their intellectual property. They might give it to as a souveneir if they are cleaning out their shop, and you haven't ordered in a while (I am speculating here) but as a matter of course, they do not consider the pattern yours, but theirs.

In any case, having the pattern is not likely to do you any good, as I don't know any tailor who work off of another's pattern. Most would probably take that as an insult.

+1 Additionally, each tailor will handle your body requirements differently. It'd be like trying to use Cadillac parts for your BMW.

I can't imagine why any tailor would agree to such a proposal given the precedents in the industry.

However, you make an interesting point, one that is supported by the practices of large manufacturing firms (tailoring, in my mind, is more like specialized manufacturing than software where the code resides with the programmer). For example, if a specialized plastic container needs to be manufactured for Kraft, the upfront tooling cost is incurred by the container manufacturer, but the resulting design is owned by Kraft which leases it indefinitely to the original manufacturer for mass production. If Kraft ever gets mad at the manufacturer, it can take its design (developed by the manufacturer) to a competing manufacturer at no penalty.

Naturally, one can make the argument that bespoke tailoring is hi-tech in its own way, and the pattern is the IP of the tailor.

EDIT: Manton makes the IP argument above as well, and its probably one that I believe most bespoke makers will argue.

the pattern made by tailor A may not produce the same results if given to Tailor B, unless it is very well notated.
In many cases the tailors have their own shorthand which is not noted on a pattern.
And my answer is no. the pattern belongs to the tailor/shirtmaker. I have know tailors to give patterns to customers if they retire and their is no successor to the business.
And you are buying a garment made to your measurements. YOu are not buying a pattern.
Years ago, I knew a customer who had a fight with his shirtmaker. they negotiated a deal where the shirtmaker gave the customer his paper pattern. Unfortunately for the customer, the shirtmaker had altered the pattern so that future shirts would not fit.

Carl

The example of the architect doesn't work for two reasons:

(1) Other parties, like masonry contractors and elevator repairmen, need the plans to perform their tasks of constructing and maintaining the building. In contrast, the tailor performs these functions himself.

(2) There's a pretty low likelihood that you're going to fax the plans to Hong Kong and have a half-dozen low-priced copies of your home or office made from those plans.

Originally Posted by yachtie

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+1 Additionally, each tailor will handle your body requirements differently. It'd be like trying to use Cadillac parts for your BMW.
Good point. This is why suits from different tailors look different on the same body, even though they all "fit."

Originally Posted by Eustace Tilley

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Manton makes the IP argument above as well, and its probably one that I believe most bespoke makers will argue.

Although I'm not a tailor, I find the IP argument to be very compelling.

Originally Posted by JayJay

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Although I'm not a tailor, I find the IP argument to be very compelling.

I do too and I have no problem with the maker owning my pattern (yachtie's point is an excellent one).

However, given that a bespoke garment is a completely customized product that cannot be used for another party / entity (unlike software code), I can understand why some people believe that the customer should own the pattern. Unlike many, my immediate reaction is not to automatically side with the makers on this.

I've had makers offer me my last or pattern if I decide to stop buying from them.

Originally Posted by iammatt

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I've had makers offer me my last or pattern if I decide to stop buying from them.

I had this happen once too. I didn't take it.

Hilary Freeman of EG told me that my EG last (which is now my G&G last) "belongs" to me, but she didn't offer to give it to me. Tony G is in possession of it, and he hasn't offered it to me either.

Lobb St. James routinely clears their stockroom of unused lasts. If you haven't ordered in ten years, they will send you a note saying if you don't place an order, they are discarding your last. Apparently, a not uncommon response is for the customer to ask that it be sent to him as a souvenier. Lobb always refuses.

Not to evade the basic question, but it seems to me that the more you pay for better and better bespoke, the more you are paying for intangibles that a paper pattern can't capture. At the end, it just seems relatively unimportant.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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Not to evade the basic question, but it seems to me that the more you pay for better and better bespoke, the more you are paying for intangibles that a paper pattern can't capture. At the end, it just seems relatively unimportant.
You would have to wonder about a retail customer that actually wanted their pattern. I know that clothing companies and designers pay tailors o make patterns for mass production but I suppose they are actually contracting for the pattern. My tailor tells me from time to time that he has the only remaining pattern for a set of "tails" from the original Brooks Brothers model and that he lends it out constantly to other tailors for them to make for customers. They're probably studying the shape and the various components more than anything else to sketch their own version of the pattern.