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Custom shirts - Page 2

post #16 of 82
Quote:
Originally posted by Marc39: In speaking with a Brioni rep dring one of their trunk shows at Bergdorf Goodman/NYC, I was told Brioni does not do custom/bespoke suits, so may I ask where your custom Brioni suits were made?
Unlike you, I don't speak to the rep, I go to the main store on Via Barbarini in Rome (follow Via Gesu)*.  We go to Italy twice a year, and in the past 5 years I have always got a suit made for me.  It takes two fittings plus, the fittings include the unfinished suit/jacket minus sleeves, buttons, and covered with chalk marks, etc.  I have seen their people working, so unless I am totally delusional, yes my suits are bespoke Brionis.
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Originally posted by Marc 39: ....stated your custom Borelli suit and custom Kiton suit were very similar and you attributed that to the same tailor---The same "tailor"....
Yes, the same person who was at the time the head tailor of Kiton a few years ago when I had to get a fitting for a suit that I ordered, was the same person who fitted me at Borrelli........so the same tailor.  I was also comparing my MTM Borrelli/Kiton/Isaia and the linings, stitchings, etc.  The Borrellis were more similar to Kiton than to Isaia, this would be untrue if the Borrellis were made by Isaia.
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Originally posted by cherrytree: T4phage, thanks for the accurate information on Borrelli and Brioni.  Is Errico Formicola the tailor who fitted you at both Kiton and Borrelli?
I'm pretty poor with names (although the name sounds familiar), but he was the same person who was introduced to me when I ordered Kiton as the head tailor, and was the same person when I got my Borrelli. *I'm pretty bad with directions too. My wife corrected me: follow via Tritone to the end (fountain), and take the road that is North East - that is Barbarini. Anyway, enough of all this... The Christmas season is with us, so from me here in the Netherlands, Merry Christmas and a Joyful New Year to all people of good intentions.
post #17 of 82
T4phage: The Brioni "rep" who informed me Brioni does not make true bespoke suits, was a senior vice president of Brioni who traveled to New York from Rome. You don't seem certain that your Brioni suits are truly bespoke. Chalk marks and 2 fittings don't a bespoke suit make. Made to measure involves chalk marks and fittings, too. And, "Seeing their people working" does not really tell us anything. I would hope there are people working at Brioni. Question for you: Did Brioni cut an individual pattern for you? If not, then it's not a bespoke suit. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not delusional: It's possible Brioni only makes bespoke suits in Rome, so perhaps you can clarify this for us. Were your "bespoke" Borelli and Kiton suits made with an individual pattern? Again, if not, they are not bespoke. Also, you claim your "bespoke" Borelli suit and "bespoke" Kiton suit looked similar because the same "head tailor" did the fittings. But, fittings would not make the Borelli and Kiton suits look alike. Yes, they'd fit similarly, but what you're really trying to convey, unsuccessfully, is that the design, cut, and profile of the suits are the same.
post #18 of 82
Quote:
Originally posted by Marc39: T4phage: The Brioni "rep" who informed me Brioni does not make true bespoke suits, was a senior vice president of Brioni who traveled to New York from Rome. You don't seem certain that your Brioni suits are truly bespoke. Chalk marks and 2 fittings don't a bespoke suit make. Made to measure involves chalk marks and fittings, too. And, "Seeing their people working" does not really tell us anything. I would hope there are people working at Brioni. Question for you: Did Brioni cut an individual pattern for you? If not, then it's not a bespoke suit. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not delusional: It's possible Brioni only makes bespoke suits in Rome, so perhaps you can clarify this for us. Were your "bespoke" Borelli and Kiton suits made with an individual pattern? Again, if not, they are not bespoke. Also, you claim your "bespoke" Borelli suit and "bespoke" Kiton suit looked similar because the same "head tailor" did the fittings. But, fittings would not make the Borelli and Kiton suits look alike. Yes, they'd fit similarly, but what you're really trying to convey, unsuccessfully, is that the design, cut, and profile of the suits are the same.
This is my last post on this matter. If you still doubt Mr. Grayson, please go to Rome, then go to Naples. Since you know so many people in the industry, you should be able to get an invite to the workshops. Yes they are bespoke, yes they cut individual patterns for me, yes they did an initial fitting with a plain cotton "make-up" suit. Yes in Rome they make bespoke.
post #19 of 82
Quote:
T4phage:  The Brioni "rep" who informed me Brioni does not make true bespoke suits, was a senior vice president of Brioni who traveled to New York from Rome. You don't seem certain that your Brioni suits are truly bespoke.  Chalk marks and 2 fittings don't a bespoke suit make.  Made to measure involves chalk marks and fittings, too.  And, "Seeing their people working" does not really tell us anything.  I would hope there are people working at Brioni.  Question for you: Did Brioni cut an individual pattern for you?  If not, then it's not a bespoke suit.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not delusional: It's possible Brioni only makes bespoke suits in Rome, so perhaps you can clarify this for us.
There is certainly a difference between Brioni's RTW suits, made in their workshop, and the custom suits that they make on the Via Barberini premises. I've seen a number of the custom suits and there are subtle but definite differences in cut and detailing. As for Borrelli suits - they have been a source of frustration to me for over a year now. I have been unsuccessful in my attempts to track down even a single suit or sportcoat to examine. One store briefly carried them in Southern California - that has been the extent of their California distribution. The many pictures that I've seen indicate that they are a nicer suit than Kiton and Attolini, but I'll have to see a few in person before I can form a definite opinion...
post #20 of 82
Quote:
Originally posted by A.Harris: As for Borrelli suits - they have been a source of frustration to me for over a year now. I have been unsuccessful in my attempts to track down even a single suit or sportcoat to examine.
Finally someone who knows what they are talking about posting on this subject. Unlike your experiences with Borrelli suits, here in the Netherlands it is the opposite: Only one store carries Kiton - Pauw in Amsterdam. The rest have been forced by Borrelli to choose between them and Kiton. Unfortunately, the majority chose Borrelli.
post #21 of 82
Quote:
Unlike your experiences with Borrelli suits, here in the Netherlands it is the opposite: Only one store carries Kiton - Pauw in Amsterdam. The rest have been forced by Borrelli to choose between them and Kiton. Unfortunately, the majority chose Borrelli.
My friendly neighborhood men's store carries (among other things) Kiton taillored clothing and Borrelli shirts. I asked the proprietor whether Borrelli had tried to sell him their tailored clothing. He said that yes, they had, but he wasn't interested for a number of reasons. The style, quality, and price point was similar to Kiton; and he didn't have the room for both. He has built up a considerable clientele with Kiton, and he didn't see any reason to try to shift them to Borrelli. I get the idea that if he had been asked to choose between Kiton and Borrelli, he would have chosen Kiton and gotten his shirts from another Neapolitan maker. I would think that most other store owners in the US would have done the same thing. I wonder what accounts for the difference with Dutch store owners.
post #22 of 82
Quote:
Originally posted by Jcusey: I get the idea that if he had been asked to choose between Kiton and Borrelli, he would have chosen Kiton and gotten his shirts from another Neapolitan maker. I would think that most other store owners in the US would have done the same thing. I wonder what accounts for the difference with Dutch store owners.
I honestly don't know, maybe because most of the stores already carried Borrelli shirts and did not want to carry Kiton's? One person mentioned to me in passing that they ordered Borrelli's suit jackets two cms longer than standard, maybe Borrelli allows more customisation by the store than Kiton?
post #23 of 82
Naturlaut had an extensive post on Borrelli suits with excellent pictures when they first came to the boutique in nyc. I'm assuming that's still archived on here somewhere.
post #24 of 82
there was a borrelli suit on yoox selling for under $1200. it may still be there (size 40).
post #25 of 82
Here is Naturlaut's Borrelli post: Click here Unfortunately the pics don't work anymore. But the comments are excellent, and with some excellent contributions by Thracozaag. To save anyone from looking unsuccessfully, there was indeed a couple of size 38 Borrelli suit s on Yoox, but they have sold. T4phage, how do your Borrelli and Kiton suits comapre?
post #26 of 82
Be sure to check out the absolutely fantastic post in the "Kabbaz" thread by "learydennis". Anyone interested in buying a POS shirt from Kabbaz that he and his wife are hawking on EBay? So much for the exclusivity of Kabbaz masterpieces. Cherrytree, I'll bet you have several
post #27 of 82
Shut the hell up, marc.
post #28 of 82
For those who may question my credibility or motives, pasted below is the message that Carl G(oldberg) sent me via email. I would not normally share email, which is by nature private, but the nature of Carl's letter gave me no choice. If I were in the industry, why would I have posted the information that I did? American Sember's address and phone number are there for all to see on the garment district's web site and on the yellow pages web site. Why is Carl so worried about the general public having knowledge of the industry? Why so secretive, Carl? Have you got something to hide?
Quote:
Who gave you the right to print the Name address and phone number of American Sember? American Sember is a industry resource. A wholesale company. They will now be innundated with calls from the o-c people on this site for information on fabric. They sell to the trade only. Are you in the trade? I am. You also have given way too much information to the general public. Carl G CEGO
post #29 of 82
Thread Starter 
I stopped in the Geneva "shop" on Saturday and placed an order.  I left feeling more confident in my purchase than I have leaving any of the other countless "shirtmakers" I have purchased from in the past. The place is exactly what you read it is - a place where people make shirts - no fancy waiting area, no decorative artwork, no cash register - just evidence everywhere that you are at the right place.  Looking around his workshop all you see are rows and rows of manilla folders holding the patterns of countless customers - not his direct customers but those of the many, many shops that he makes shirts for - to keep their little secrets quiet I'll say it's a who's who list of tailors, haberdasheries, etc. all over the country - it felt like I could imagine a shop and then turn left and see it and their customers patterns. As for price ...  Mike said he is a wholesaler - and his prices reflect such.  You name the fabric, the mill, the pattern - it was there.  Prices from $185-$285 were more than reasonable given the selection of cottons - even more fun was placing my order and then walking uptown a few blocks to someone selling his shirts to see how much I had saved (over $500). I can't wait until my sample shirt is ready - around mid-January. Thanks everyone..
post #30 of 82
Mr. Learydenis, You left out the first part of the email you sent directly to me. [/b]Listen up Carl G(oldberg), you idiot No one gave me the right - I do not need for someone to give me the right.   Here is the email I sent to you. First off I have nothing to hide. I am in the industry. American Sember is not in the regular Yellow pages. They most likely are listed in the business to business yellow pages. Which means, they deal with business's and are not a retail operation. Go to 39 or 40th St. and buy fabric from the stores there. I make shirts and sell fabric. If you came into my business and bought shirts or fabric I would charge you sales tax unless you could prove you were in the trade. I would not accept any old tax ID # which you mentioned is so easy to get. You were also quoting fabric prices. Again, this is not information that is just available to the public. There are many factors that go into the cost of an item as you are aware. Material cost and direct labor are only the first of many expenses. The price of my shirts is somewhat lower compared to uptown street level operations. I have kept these low by staying upstairs in a rather unglamorous location. It does not make my product inferior. I do this to keep my prices lower to attract a more price sensitive and less status conscious customer. I don't remember calling you any names. Are you questioning my intelligence? I just made my opinion to you clear, Do you think the people at American Sember want to even discuss the merits of their product with someone who they are not even going to sell to? Who has that much time to waste. I will take the time    to educate my customers on the shirts they are buying from me. This is part of the sales process. What do you do for a living? Would you like your profit margins posted in a public forum? I have no desire to be involved in name calling.
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