or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › General › General Chat › Bentley v Rolls Royce
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Bentley v Rolls Royce - Page 10

post #136 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJman View Post
Amazing how this thread derailed into some Mercedes-Benz e-organ comparison after linux_pro brayed that Bentleys were for nouveau riche poseurs. Do we want to give him that much power over our judgment? That said, the Bentley coupe, while beautiful, is a bit Footballers' Wives.
My point wasn't that Bentleys are for nouveau riche poseurs. My point was that Bentleys have NO utility, other than to impress others with your wealth. My secondary point was that I find such utility to be rather vulgar. I used Luis Vuitton as a comparison, because the same thing is true for their products now - there are better purses on the market for different purposes, other than making its owner appear wealthy. For luxury sedans, the Lexus LS460 comes with a better warranty, more features, better fuel mileage, drastically better resale value, better mechanical reliability (the UZ-FE series of V8's are some of the best engines ever made), more passenger space, etc. The same can be said for the Mercedes S-class sedans. I can see no possible reason why one would want a Bentley or a Rolls-Royce over the sedans just mentioned other than to impress others with their wealth. In any other utility comparison (than displaying personal wealth), I'm afraid the Bentley and Rolls-Royce rank far lower than the Lexus. Perhaps there is a reason why so few who can afford one actually drive one?
post #137 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern-Nupe View Post
I see nothing wrong with an engine which is reliable, runs to 7 grand, posts great torque/ power numbers, and weighs less than some 6 cylinders and most v8's.

But yet you're dissing my SLK350? That makes no sense. An engine developing 270ft-lbs of torque at 2400RPM, a topend of ~305bhp, and a redline of 6400RPM seems to fit your criteria here.
post #138 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by linux_pro View Post
I used Luis Vuitton as a comparison, because the same thing is true for their products now - there are better purses on the market for different purposes, other than making its owner appear wealthy.


I disagree. I bought my wife a LV Epi leather purse in black 10 years ago. She has used it almost everyday and it still looks amazing, almost new. It has been a great value in that regard. And in black epi leather it is completely under the radar. Few know what it is.
post #139 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by linux_pro View Post
My point wasn't that Bentleys are for nouveau riche poseurs. My point was that Bentleys have NO utility, other than to impress others with your wealth.

Unlike say, this car, which is just full of utilitarian features, like a back seat and a trunk?





Well, you are right, it does not scream nouveau riche.
post #140 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
Agreed. However the post in question seemed to indicate multiple trips to a race track to pit his vehicle against other club members. In fact, his presence is so regular, he invited other posters to come out to witness his awesomeness.

Actually, you are now following me to other threads to troll my posts, since you lost an argument in another thread in which you attempted to state that leasing a car is cheaper than buying one. I posted an article that showed buying to be a cheaper option, you insulted me numerous times, dropped out of the thread, and are now trolling other threads in which I post. Which is quite lame.

I said I take my SLK to the track for NASA and PCA events. I sold the Porsche 930 that I owned previously when buying the SLK, but still drive in the PCA events because I like the group. The PCA track events I've attended tend to be fairly casual, with timed laps and friendly competition. The NASA events are always educational, I'm still in the driving instruction, although I could race if I wanted at this point since I am Class III. But I enjoy the structure of the classes, and appreciate what I get to learn there - which I have also used to improve my street driving.

I also never said I would race people. I once said that if you thought my SLK was weak, we could meet up on I-90 and face off, FOLLOWED BY A LAUGH. I assumed, obviously incorrectly, that anyone seeing this would realize it was intended to be sarcasm. Because, frankly, who over the age of 30 gives a crap if their car is the fastest on the road? I don't. If speed had been my only reason for buying a car, I would have bought a 993 Turbo or the Cayman S.
post #141 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
Unlike say, this car, which is just full of utilitarian features, like a back seat and a trunk?

It has a trunk, and I've fit 9 bags of groceries in it. I've also taken a tent and two sleeping bags, with luggage, on a road trip. And this last weekend, a friend and I got 2 golf bags in the trunk with no problems at all, with the roof down. I keep wondering if you've even seen one of these cars in the flesh.

I don't need a back seat, so that wouldn't be useful for me at all. I use the car for commuting, or for running around town with my girlfriend, or going on road trips. My friends tend to have vehicles, so it's not like I need to tote people around. So what am I missing? A place to throw garbage, like most people do with their back seats? Pfffft. There are actually many advantages to not having a back seat - like having a much shorter back-end that I can easily see over when parking, having a cabin with no wind turbulence at all when I drive, etc. It's funny that you mentioned this in the first place, since the first bullet point on my shopping list when I was looking for a car was that it be a two-seater.
post #142 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by linux_pro View Post
I keep wondering if you've even seen one of these cars in the flesh.

Drove one of those and the V8 this weekend while my wife's MB was in for its first oil change. I couldn't see around all the mini-vans, pick up trucks, and SUVs. Nice fun cars though.
post #143 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by linux_pro View Post
My point wasn't that Bentleys are for nouveau riche poseurs. My point was that Bentleys have NO utility, other than to impress others with your wealth. My secondary point was that I find such utility to be rather vulgar. I used Luis Vuitton as a comparison, because the same thing is true for their products now - there are better purses on the market for different purposes, other than making its owner appear wealthy.

For luxury sedans, the Lexus LS460 comes with a better warranty, more features, better fuel mileage, drastically better resale value, better mechanical reliability (the UZ-FE series of V8's are some of the best engines ever made), more passenger space, etc. The same can be said for the Mercedes S-class sedans.

I can see no possible reason why one would want a Bentley or a Rolls-Royce over the sedans just mentioned other than to impress others with their wealth. In any other utility comparison (than displaying personal wealth), I'm afraid the Bentley and Rolls-Royce rank far lower than the Lexus. Perhaps there is a reason why so few who can afford one actually drive one?

The Lexus LS460 is a really good car for the price. If you are looking for VALUE in a luxury sedan, the Lexus should be on the top of your shopping list.

If money is no object, and you are just looking to buy the best built sedan available, the RR Phantom and Maybach should probably be on the top of your list. Some Bentleys and MBs would probably follow towards the bottom of the list.

You (and others) might think those cars don`t looks so hot, but that is a styling issue. Cheaper cars are usually designed to appeal to more people, so that is part of the problem. The fact remains, cars like the RR Phantom are among the best built cars in the world.

If you are shopping for a sedan, but don`t want to STAND OUT (or flaunt your wealth, as you say) then you should just buy a cheaper, mass produced sedan like the Lexus or BMW.
post #144 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketsquareguy View Post
I disagree. I bought my wife a LV Epi leather purse in black 10 years ago. She has used it almost everyday and it still looks amazing, almost new. It has been a great value in that regard. And in black epi leather it is completely under the radar. Few know what it is.


I'm sure it is a great purse, and obviously you were buying it for the quality. But that doesn't negate my point. There will always be a few people buying for quality regardless of brand, and this is obviously the case for you. However, I'd say that you are in the extreme minority in this regard. 98% of the people walking around with LV stuff are doing so because they want to look rich. And they aren't buying plain black LV knockoffs. Also, the plain black leather products make up about 5% of LV's inventory. Hardly representative of their product lineup.

I would also argue that the Lexus is a better built vehicle than the Bentley, especially the engine. I just don't see one area where the Bentleys or Rolls-Royces match up well against any of the other cars in their target market (luxury sedans). In purse terms, I think the Lexus is going to be the purse that is still in great shape after 10 years, driving perfectly with no problems, and still exuding a quiet elegance that is lacking in the Bentley.
post #145 of 168
Aren't most of the Rolls and Bentleys ever built still on the road?
post #146 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shraka View Post
The overall weight isn't a problem. The problem is the length. A longer engine means you have to either have a really long bonnet, or put more of the weight over the front of the front wheels, which makes the balance worse. You always want your engine as close to the center of your car as possible.

Another reason they are not being used as much anymore is because it is harder to make them meet pedestrian crash regs (due to the long, tall engine being closer to the front being more likely to cause injury).

The final reason they are not used so much anymore is because you can't easily make them into a FWD application. A lot of sports engines share a heritage with a consumer engine, and if you can't make it front wheel drive nobody will buy your car (with a few exceptions). Not to mention if you're already designing V6s, you already know the pitfalls of those engines, and are more likely to 'stick with what you know' and not start from scratch on an inline 6 sports engine.

As for Inline 6s being 'old tech', that's not true. They're a layout, not a technology. You can update a layout with new technology.

There are a few more examples than you mentioned too! Just some off the top of my head:
- Nissan RB20, RB25 and RB26 engines, the RB26 being included in the Skyline GT-R, one of the leading sports cars from Japan.
- TVR Speed Six engine in the TVR Cerbera, Tamora, T350, Tuscan, Sagaris and Typhon.
- Inline 6s were used in Formula one from 1947 to 1960.
- Ford Australia's DOHC Turbocharged I6

Also, the ones you did mention: The Toyota Supra 2JZ-GTE is considered by many to be the BEST turbo engines ever developed. It's solid, reliable, and can make LOTS of power without exploding (1000+hp models are almost common). And the M3 is the best, longest lived sports coupes ever. The old M3 engine was brilliant. So you can't tell me they don't make good sports applications.

An inline six not used for ease and convenience, not because the engine design is bad.
Good point, it can be used in high performance applications, however you've only named a few, there are far more V6-V12 variations. As you sited earlier, the size of an inline 6, is somewhat of a hinderance. You have to take into account, the more modern TVR's are considered to be large displacement, some of their engines are similar in size to the smaller "large" displacement V8's.

As for the Supra, it has been well documented that the car is reliable, however that has nothing to do with the application, it's much more based on the design of the iron block, the same can be said of the LS1 and the 5.4 in the Ford GT's (which uses an aluminum block, but still has a bottom end capable of accepting over 1000 hp).

I have nothing against inline engines, my mothers SUV has one, and the idle and pick up is quite smooth. I myself drive a blown V8, and couldn't be happier (except at the pumps). I can understand where you're coming from in regards to rednecks who equate the size of their engine, with their cars performance (that bothers me as well), however I'm just as annoyed by guys in FWD 4 cylinder Civics who continously talk about engine technology, without first taking into account, the final output of the engine and automobile (this was not a reference to you).

The Z06, is quite an engine, but it's performance output would likely be lost on all but the sports car fans, because the tuner crowd would continue to preach about V-Tech this and forced induction that (which as I said earlier, my car is FI).

In all honesty, some of my favorite cars are smaller displacement 4-6 cylinders and rotary; S2000, 93-95 RX-7's, Porsche 911's, not to mention the TVR Sagaris (easy favorite outside of the Ford GT and AM Vantage).
post #147 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by linux_pro View Post
But yet you're dissing my SLK350? That makes no sense. An engine developing 270ft-lbs of torque at 2400RPM, a topend of ~305bhp, and a redline of 6400RPM seems to fit your criteria here.
I wasn't trying to diss your car, maybe I failed to say, but I think the SLK is a pretty nice luxurious droptop.
post #148 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by linux_pro View Post
I'm sure it is a great purse, and obviously you were buying it for the quality. But that doesn't negate my point. There will always be a few people buying for quality regardless of brand, and this is obviously the case for you. However, I'd say that you are in the extreme minority in this regard. 98% of the people walking around with LV stuff are doing so because they want to look rich. And they aren't buying plain black LV knockoffs. Also, the plain black leather products make up about 5% of LV's inventory. Hardly representative of their product lineup.

I would also argue that the Lexus is a better built vehicle than the Bentley, especially the engine. I just don't see one area where the Bentleys or Rolls-Royces match up well against any of the other cars in their target market (luxury sedans). In purse terms, I think the Lexus is going to be the purse that is still in great shape after 10 years, driving perfectly with no problems, and still exuding a quiet elegance that is lacking in the Bentley.
However you have to take into account, the RR and Bentley are hand-built smaller production cars when compared against, a Lexus (and my wife has a GS300, so I can speak on Lexus's quality). The build quality is great, and we've had very little trouble with it, however the car is somewhat lacking of personality. I do like the looks of the new LS, and looked in one, when taking my wife's car in for service (quite impressive), however the car still didn't have the personality that stirs ones soul.

I can understand, where you're coming from regarding cars and image, especially pertaining to Bentley's being the choice car of the Hollywood and music sect. However you have to admire the dedication and quality put into the build of the car (hand built)....the same can be said about some of the sporting cars like Astons and Ferrari's.
post #149 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by linux_pro View Post
I would also argue that the Lexus is a better built vehicle than the Bentley, especially the engine. I just don't see one area where the Bentleys or Rolls-Royces match up well against any of the other cars in their target market (luxury sedans). In purse terms, I think the Lexus is going to be the purse that is still in great shape after 10 years, driving perfectly with no problems, and still exuding a quiet elegance that is lacking in the Bentley.

I am with you a little (just a little) on the Bentley part. The current Bentley sedan (Continental) is based on the VW flagship (Phaeton), so under the skin is not so special.

Still, the Lexus remains a great VALUE car. There are tons of cheap cars that will run without problems in 10 years, so that is not really a barometer for being the best built for a luxury sedan (that is more like a given). Even if your personal barometer for good build is just reliability, RR has been known for 100 years for building the most reliable cars on earth. No matter how old, they are all still running in very good shape and remain the absolute benchmark of luxury sedans.

You are probably right that some people buy RR just to show off, but there are many others that buy them because they remain the best built luxury sedans in the world. In the today`s lineup of new sedans, there is probably no other car that is better built than the Phantom.
post #150 of 168
Southern-Nupe: Actually didn't care much for the S2000. It has to be driven like a motorcycle, or it feels like a bland Civic. When I drove the S2000 (4 times), it just didn't feel good; too buzzy, loud and harsh at speed, and too bland in the lower RPMS, like an econobox. You really have to get that thing up past 5k RPM to have any fun. I love low-end torque, makes for enjoyable city driving (playing when you can, legally) and just feels smoother somehow. About the Supra engine (2JZ-GTE), you can't get close to 1000hp on stock internals. Don't get me wrong, I agree that it's one of the best engines ever produced, but stock internals only handle about 400-500hp. Then, you have to swap out everything - cams, pistons, heads, etc. If you were just talking about the block, you still have to upgrade the block to 6-bolt past 500hp, and I've heard they require some custom oil porting. And at that point, you're no longer looking at anything close to a stock 2JZ-GTE, bottom-end or otherwise. The only 6-8cyl engine I've ever heard of reaching 1000hp on stock internals was a 1UZ-FE Lexus V8, and the guy only ran it about 5 times before it blew up. He swapped out the internals, and got up to about 1400rwhp IIRC and still had no problems with the stock bottom-end. The 1UZ-FE is the best engine Toyota ever made (and possibly the best made by anyone), and it's rumored that BMW stole the design for their new V8 M3. This engine is one reason I said the LS400 is actually a better-built car, mechanically speaking, than a Rolls Royce or Bentley. The 1UZ-FE is a famous engine among racing crowds, but practically unheard-of by mechanics because they never see them (because they never break). You can daily-drive this engine for 10 years straight, and as long as you change the oil you will never see a mechanic in your engine compartment. I can't speak for a Rolls-Royce or Bentley, because I don't own one, but I seriously doubt their engines compare favorably against the UZ-FE series from a mechanical standpoint. It's rumored that Toyota will be putting a next-gen UZ-FE block in the next Supra (altho Toyota claims that any new Supra will actually be released under the Lexus nameplate, and won't be called a Supra... it will be part of their "F" lineup). I'm looking forward to that vehicle, because I'm quite sure that a UZ-FE properly tuned and built for sports application should be able to easily dispatch the new M3 and GT-R.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Chat
Styleforum › Forums › General › General Chat › Bentley v Rolls Royce