The Rubinacci Thread.

[RSS]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

OTH, Edwin's most recent batch of SBs for me have a lot of old school A&S flair that hasn't (AFAIK) come out of the mother ship for thirty years, so I might be able to go with one solution year round.

This is interesting to hear. Are you willing to say more ... via PM or in the forum? Tried to send you a PM ... but your inbox is full.

 

[msameth]

Originally Posted by Eustace Tilley

You try to demonstrate that he is fat and weirdly shaped on the basis of that photo?

Here's a bit of news for you: the vast majority of men who purchase $5-$6K bespoke suits look like that.

No. I'm sorry if my comment came off as mean-spirited or even derogatory. For that I apologize, as that was not my intention. I merely wanted to underscore (albeit indirectly, sorry for the confusion) the unfairness of focusing on one relatively less flattering picture of an object (or person in my poorly defined counter-example) at the exclusion of several others or its appearance in real life. I just feel it's difficult to lay down absolute condemnation based on one picture of one suit when there is divergence across the pictures posted here of various aspects of Mr. Diller's garments. Take his sleeve length, for instance, which sometimes exposes a bit of shirt cuff and sometimes none. I'm aware the LH cuts a fuller sleeve than most, in which Mr. Diller's shirt cuff might be hung up momentarily as the picture is snapped. This example could be extended to other aspects that have fallen under critics' guns here. I realize I'm also giving LH the benefit of the doubt that they are not cutting his sleeves, waist, body length, trousers, etc, wildly different each time. I'm hoping, in any case, they wouldn't be "screwing up" like this considering the premium they charge, and that if there was a problem, a client willing to pay that price would strive to have it fixed given their reputed level of service.

 

[Ich_Dien]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

This chap got off at the same Vaporetto stop as me this evening. When we caught gaze it was with admiring glances.

 

[comrade]

Originally Posted by Ich_Dien

This chap got off at the same Vaporetto stop as me this evening. When we caught gaze it was with admiring glances.

Was it your suit or your butt that drew his attention?

 

[Bull]

Coming back to this pic for a second, and I the only one who sees that the shoulder seam falls nowhere near the pointy part of his shoulder? Like, it couldn't be any worse (IMO). Now, if this were an old suit, then I'd cut him some slack, because old men start hunching and walking with awful posture and nobody expects them to trash all of their suits - we just sort of them give them a pass. But if this suit were made at any point in the past 5 years of this man's life, then I think the argument can be made that his tailor failed him pretty badly. Sure the collar hugs his neck and blah blah blah - but the shoulder is a mess.

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by Bull

Coming back to this pic for a second, and I the only one who sees that the shoulder seam falls nowhere near the pointy part of his shoulder? Like, it couldn't be any worse (IMO). Now, if this were an old suit, then I'd cut him some slack, because old men start hunching and walking with awful posture and nobody expects them to trash all of their suits - we just sort of them give them a pass. But if this suit were made at any point in the past 5 years of this man's life, then I think the argument can be made that his tailor failed him pretty badly. Sure the collar hugs his neck and blah blah blah - but the shoulder is a mess.
This isn't a flaw. The unpadded natural shoulder is a defining feature of Rubinacci jackets--from my understanding Beppe uses Rubinacci and Caraceni. With this shoulder treatment, the natural apex of your outer shoulder or the high point of your clavicle often protrude more noticeably from some angles than others. This is the case on my own jackets, and true of all other Rubinacci jackets I've seen. Look at Mariano's own, for example. Anyway, if by shoulder seam you mean the armscye (where the sleeve attaches), it isn't necessarily a mistake for it to lie further out than even the widest point of the wearer's own shoulder--moreover, you would certainly never expect a sleeve to be attached at the point of the clavicle. Shoulder extension is a legitimate fitting and styling tool. In fact, shoulders on the forum are too narrow more often than they are too wide. You might as well criticize an A&S jacket with drape for having all that extra cloth.

 

[Bull]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

This isn't a flaw. The unpadded natural shoulder is a defining feature of Rubinacci jackets--from my understanding Beppe uses Rubinacci and Caraceni. With this shoulder treatment, the natural apex of your outer shoulder or the high point of your clavicle often protrude more noticeably from some angles than others. This is the case on my own jackets, and true of all other Rubinacci jackets I've seen. Look at Mariano's own, for example.

Anyway, if by shoulder seam you mean the armscye (where the sleeve attaches), it isn't necessarily a mistake for it to lie further out than even the widest point of the wearer's own shoulder--moreover, you would certainly never expect a sleeve to be attached at the point of the clavicle. Shoulder extension is a legitimate fitting and styling tool. In fact, shoulders on the forum are too narrow more often than they are too wide.

You might as well criticize an A&S jacket with drape for having all that extra cloth.

Very, very odd. I don't get it - I thought the whole point of bespoke was that the armscye hits rights at the widest part of the shoulder. At any rate, that's how my bespoke garments fit, and exactly how my RTW garments *don't* fit. To think that the someone would pay for the widest part of their shoulder to hit at the halfway point between the collar and the armscye - as Beppe's does - makes absolutely no sense to me.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

This isn't a flaw. The unpadded natural shoulder is a defining feature of Rubinacci jackets--from my understanding Beppe uses Rubinacci and Caraceni. With this shoulder treatment, the natural apex of your outer shoulder or the high point of your clavicle often protrude more noticeably from some angles than others. This is the case on my own jackets, and true of all other Rubinacci jackets I've seen. Look at Mariano's own, for example.

Anyway, if by shoulder seam you mean the armscye (where the sleeve attaches), it isn't necessarily a mistake for it to lie further out than even the widest point of the wearer's own shoulder--moreover, you would certainly never expect a sleeve to be attached at the point of the clavicle. Shoulder extension is a legitimate fitting and styling tool. In fact, shoulders on the forum are too narrow more often than they are too wide.

You might as well criticize an A&S jacket with drape for having all that extra cloth.

Please post an example. I do not doubt you for a second - it's just that what I have seen more often than not is protruding padding of the shoulder, not an armscye that hits before the widest part of the shoulder, and would like to see what a narrow shoulder looks like (mainly so I can avoid this fate on a future commission).

Originally Posted by mafoofan

This isn't a flaw. The unpadded natural shoulder is a defining feature of Rubinacci jackets--from my understanding Beppe uses Rubinacci and Caraceni. With this shoulder treatment, the natural apex of your outer shoulder or the high point of your clavicle often protrude more noticeably from some angles than others. This is the case on my own jackets, and true of all other Rubinacci jackets I've seen. Look at Mariano's own, for example.

Anyway, if by shoulder seam you mean the armscye (where the sleeve attaches), it isn't necessarily a mistake for it to lie further out than even the widest point of the wearer's own shoulder--moreover, you would certainly never expect a sleeve to be attached at the point of the clavicle. Shoulder extension is a legitimate fitting and styling tool. In fact, shoulders on the forum are too narrow more often than they are too wide.

You might as well criticize an A&S jacket with drape for having all that extra cloth.

Excessive drape has never looked right to me, and I still view the entire business of drape with a bit of suspicion, just as tuttofattoamano does. A&S is by no means beyond reproach. For instance, this example of A&S plainly does not look sufficiently fitted/shaped in the front (to me, at least)...

 

[literasyme]

Looks like this thread is sort of back on track. Interesting discussion of that jacket. Personally, this does strike me as an instance where something that would be seen as a flaw in a RTW garment becomes a feature of a particular bespoke tailor's house style. I'm pretty sure that such a shoulder, if displayed in a WAYWT post and on a RTW garment, would be called sloppy, ill-fitting, or simply "too wide." But how can we have it both ways? If this sort of effect can be replicated by wearing an OTR coat that's too wide in the shoulder, even if only accidentally, where does the achievement of cutting this sort of shoulder lie? (Leaving aside, for the sake of the argument, other aspects of a bespoke garment, such as shaping etc.)

 

[George]

Originally Posted by literasyme

Looks like this thread is sort of back on track. Interesting discussion of that jacket. Personally, this does strike me as an instance where something that would be seen as a flaw in a RTW garment becomes a feature of a particular bespoke tailor's house style. I'm pretty sure that such a shoulder, if displayed in a WAYWT post and on a RTW garment, would be called sloppy, ill-fitting, or simply "too wide." But how can we have it both ways? If this sort of effect can be replicated by wearing an OTR coat that's too wide in the shoulder, even if only accidentally, where does the achievement of cutting this sort of shoulder lie? (Leaving aside, for the sake of the argument, other aspects of a bespoke garment, such as shaping etc.)
One of the problems is that a lot of men (most) cannot wear an unpadded shoulder and it look good. They simply do not have the build to carry it off. Most men need some structure/padding to clean up the shoulder line or it looks sloppy, it doesn't look 'tailored'. Casual coats/suits like Linen, tweed etc. excluded. I've noticed that the younger R. seems to have some padding in the coats that I've seen posted on here. Another thing about the suit pictured above is that the lapels are a **** up, look at the stripes, and how they run out. That to me looks bad and amateurish. I remember seeing the same thing on a Caraceni that Uppercase posted on L.L a while back, so I know it's not an exclusively an R. thing. Another thing, I'm sure I remember Iammatt saying that R. tended to save the spalla. c. for sports coats/casual coat.

 

[Bull]

Originally Posted by George

One of the problems is that a lot of men (most) cannot wear an unpadded shoulder and it look good. They simply do not have the build to carry it off. Most men need some structure/padding to clean up the shoulder line or it looks sloppy, it doesn't look 'tailored'. Casual coats/suits like Linen, tweed etc. excluded.

I've noticed that the younger R. seems to have some padding in the coats that I've seen posted on here.

Another thing about the suit pictured above is that the lapels are a **** up, look at the stripes, and how they run out. That to me looks bad and amateurish. I remember seeing the same thing on a Caraceni that Uppercase posted on L.L a while back, so I know it's not an exclusively an R. thing.

Another thing, I'm sure I remember Iammatt saying that R. tended to save the spalla. c. for sports coats/casual coat.

I'm intrigued. I actually thought the stripes on the lapels looked good, but - then again - I don't have nearly the same eye as others around here for minute detail. Do you think it would have been possible for such large, swooping, curved lapels to have been cut to that there is no running-off of the lines(?) Maybe so...

 

[George]

A&S on the left. Graham Browne on the right. The Browne, probably costs less than half as much as A&S but has produced a far more flattering cut in my opinion. http://permanentstyle.blogspot.com/

 

[lasbar]

Originally Posted by George

A&S on the left. Graham Browne on the right. The Browne, probably costs less than half as much as A&S but has produced a far more flattering cut in my opinion.

http://permanentstyle.blogspot.com/

These pictures are offering an interesting visual inside to on-going questions regarding Anderson's cut and drape...

The difference between the two jackets is huge...

It makes me wonder...

I think Anderson 's DB suits look better than their SB...

 

[Bull]

Originally Posted by lasbar

These pictures are offering an interesting visual inside to on-going questions regarding Anderson's cut and drape...

The difference between the two jackets is huge...

It makes me wonder...

I think Anderson 's DB suits look better than their SB...

Good point. Their DBs do tend to look well-executed.

 

[onix]

it strikes me that most of the bespoke looks here (and the AS thread) are uninteresting.

 

[George]

Originally Posted by Bull

I'm intrigued. I actually thought the stripes on the lapels looked good, but - then again - I don't have nearly the same eye as others around here for minute detail. Do you think it would have been possible for such large, swooping, curved lapels to have been cut to that there is no running-off of the lines(?) Maybe so...
On my suits the tailor has tried to follow the line of the lapel as best he can but they do sometime run out at the bottom of the lapel. But they certainly do not look like that. I remember showing a picture of Uppercases L.L suit to my then tailor and that's the first thing he noticed. Stripes draw the eye to imperfections, perceived or otherwise.