Why NY is Great!

She's probably got another guy that's either long distance or not completely committed for one reason or another, so she's dating in the meantime. That's not a good sign, but not a dealbreaker. The bad sign is that you're looking at her facebook profile and trying to divine her feelings from that. Your best hope with a girl that's playing hard to get is to not really give half of a **** about her. She'll find that unbelievably attractive. It's a cliche but no less true because of it. You clearly do give a **** about her, and she definitely knows that you do. Be cool, take your time, don't try too hard. For God's sake don't talk to her about your feelings or ask her to clarify hers. There's time for that later, when she's actually your girlfriend. Just have fun.

Thank you all for the advice, its great to have some non-biased opinions and for the most part I agree with you all.

To clarify a few things:

1. NY is great because A. we have adult professional co-ed dodgeball leagues complete with drinking B. you can make plans to do something, for a first date...completely mess up and still have an amazing time/great food with all of the choices 24hrs a day!

2. No we have not discussed anything let alone exclusivity...it is strange though that she is suddenly interested in where I go out on other nights.

3. Her b'day was Thursday...I was with her (group setting) on Wed (technically thursday as well considering we stayed until after midnight) and had some drinks after dodgeball...I bought some pie with a candle in it as well. Anyway, back to the Facebook issue...she had a party on Thursday night (I cleaned my apt.) and I just saw the pics this AM....all girls, like a dozen of them....not a one guy there....I think thats a good sign??? Am I wrong? I read as anticle talking about how facebook status is total BS and that people (girls especially) screw around with that stuff for all sorts of ridiculous reasons.

Originally Posted by Big A

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Am I the only one who noticed that the meeting was via a dodgeball team? I didn't even know such things really existed, outside of Vince Vaughn / Ben Stiller fantasy worlds.

That's what makes NYC great - that you can play on a dodgeball team. I wish we were that progressive in Raleigh - we just got roller derby a few years ago (go Rollergirls!)

I know people who play in a kickball league. The hipster irony is a bit too thick for me to stomache.

Originally Posted by samblau

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3. Her b'day was Thursday...I was with her (group setting) on Wed (technically thursday as well considering we stayed until after midnight) and had some drinks after dodgeball...I bought some pie with a candle in it as well. Anyway, back to the Facebook issue...she had a party on Thursday night (I cleaned my apt.) and I just saw the pics this AM....all girls, like a dozen of them....not a one guy there....I think thats a good sign??? Am I wrong? I read as anticle talking about how facebook status is total BS and that people (girls especially) screw around with that stuff for all sorts of ridiculous reasons.

It might be a good sign, but it really doesn't mean much either way. Just focus on an excellent second date, and things will work out themselves. If she was going out with somebody or had somebody else in mind, she wouldn't have agreed on a second date. So, she has left the door opened for you, and now it is your job to enter it. What are your plans for the second date?

Yeah, I hope I didn't sound harsh in my last post. My only point was to not worry at this point where things are headed. Just have fun and don't think too much about things. If there's real chemistry between you guys and it starts really working out well, almost by definition you won't be confused about her intentions or feelings.

I'm one of those 30 something married guys that does not give a **** and I am also rather a prick when it comes to this type of advice, as the board has come to expect of me, so keeping that in mind here are my thoughts.

1. Girl does not like you in "that way". You play dodgeball on a team with her. I'm sure you think it's cool, but honestly, it's not a place to pick up chicks. I loved dodgeball when I was in the fifth grade and I wouldn't mind playing a spontaneous game now and then, but actually being in an organized league is rather unsettling. Usually, where women sweat and wear bad clothes is not their ideal place to meet men.

2. You really need to pull back on these early "relationships". You just went out with her and you are already looking her up on facebook (why are 30 year olds on facebook?) and trying to read her mind. That's rather stalker-ish. Quite frankly, you sound a bit like a high schooler trying to read her moves (b-day party) and such. The candle/cake thing was also rather weird.

3. You are her dodgeball buddy, the likelihood is that you will never progress from that. Whatever girl you meet next, try for it not to be in a dodgeball scenario and don't bring dodgeball up for at least a few dates.

4. At the end of the day, you have to simply have the balls to tell her what you are looking for in very direct terms and try not to seem desperate. Maybe she is a lesbian and if so, that will at least soften the blow if she shoots you down.

5. Lastly, without knowing you and going simply by what you have said, you sound like you need to really mature in the dating sense. Your story sounds similar to Conne's/GQGeek's sad women tales and everyone knows the level of loser those two are when it comes to women.

I'm imagining these New York City dodgeball teams are full of those 30-ish lawyers and bankers who have vast amounts of pent-up frustration.

Originally Posted by samblau

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Last night I took a girl I have been chasing for three months from my dodgeball team out. We see each other at dodgeball and she is super-friendly, I e-mail her, she responds when she feels like it...and finally, after making tentative plans on Friday...she e-mails me her phone # at noon yesterday and does not return my call until 6PM. I don't have much experience with the cat and mouse game...maybe its just us crazy NYers.

I had the night planned out perfectly...go to the LES and eat at a BYOB Greek/North African restaurant called Elyssa Dido which is listed on menupages and its own active website as being located at 85 Orchard St. Have a bottle of wine and Il Laboratorio Gelato is up the block. Turns out now its a dif restaurant an the gelato place closes early! No matter...the place is now called Little Giant and was really good! A bit more $$$ than I thought, 2 drinks, 2 apps 2 main were $95 + tip. I had an asparagus salad with pancetta and a duck egg...really good...she had a dandelion salad...for main I had black sea bass over an avocado salad with some heirloom tomatos, she had a duck confit...all really good.....and best of all she is a girl who likes BEER, I had a Turbodog and she had a Bluepoint Toasted Lager. All really good...its a nice small place and I recommend to anyone going to LES willing to pay IMO slightly above average prices. After we ate and found out the gelato place was closed she took me to a cupcake place she knew of...I had the super chocolate and she had red velvet which was small but I still had to make the ultimate sacrifice and help her finish. As mothers day is tomorrow she left pretty early, 10 ish BUT right before I got the "so..next week???" which is pretty good!

10 was too early for me so I met my guy friends for beers and 2:30 AM street food. Didn't know what to do, normally I am the one asking others as opposed to telling about my dates.



I know you got a second date and all, but the bolded part does not bode well. She's being a lot more flip about dating than you are. Those roles need to be reversed in order to have "the hand". You seem like a decent dude who's trying to plan perfect dates, but young girls in the city don't all go for that kind of thing.

Ed - this is exactly the kind of response we've come to expect from you so I'd like to commend you for your consistency.

That said, and trying to move a little bit away from the Internet Don Juan complex exhibited here (which is perhaps as laughable as the Internet Tough Guy complex we just love to make fun of), there is absolutely nothing wrong with
(a) thinking about a girl you like or are dating, and looking her up on facebook,
(b) being a bit dorky or insecure with women when dating (of the people I know IRL, only the total jerks pretend or act like they are not)
(c) putting a candle on a piece of cake if you're on a date with a chick and you know it's her birthday (why TF would that be "weird"?)

Americans dating .....no wonder most of you need therapists.
NYC is full to the brim with desperate and great looking girls of all ages and that is what you do, stock her facebook page....?
I hope she paid her half of the dinner, casue I doubt you going to get anywhere with her.

Originally Posted by gdl203

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Ed - this is exactly the kind of response we've come to expect from you so I'd like to commend you for your consistency.

That said, and trying to move a little bit away from the Internet Don Juan complex exhibited here (which is perhaps as laughable as the Internet Tough Guy complex we just love to make fun of), there is absolutely nothing wrong with
(a) thinking about a girl and looking her up on facebook,
(b) being a bit dorky or insecure with women when dating (of the people I know IRL, only the total jerks pretend or act like they are not)
(c) putting a candle on a piece of cake if you're ona date with a chick and you know it's her birthday (why TF would that be "weird"?)

Thank you sir

Not trying to come off as Don Juan, but a lot of guys here exhibit the exact opposite which is this sort of teenage girl "what is he thinking, what does this mean, what should I do" personality.

a) I agree with you, but looking her up and trying to read into entries about her relationship or lack thereof I find to be needy.
b) I absolutely agree with you, but I find that it is helpful to try and minimize how much of the insecure/dorkiness the girl sees from you.
c) I don't think it was a date, I think they were hanging out and he got her a candle/cake. Doing that in a large group of people is rather wierd.

Originally Posted by gdl203

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Ed - this is exactly the kind of response we've come to expect from you so I'd like to commend you for your consistency.

That said, and trying to move a little bit away from the Internet Don Juan complex exhibited here (which is perhaps as laughable as the Internet Tough Guy complex we just love to make fun of), there is absolutely nothing wrong with
(a) thinking about a girl you like or are dating, and looking her up on facebook,
(b) being a bit dorky or insecure with women when dating (of the people I know IRL, only the total jerks pretend or act like they are not)
(c) putting a candle on a piece of cake if you're on a date with a chick and you know it's her birthday (why TF would that be "weird"?)

+ 1. He should only focus on what he knows about the girl, and not about she might or might not be thinking. The way I am looking at it, he is complicating things unnecessarily. Go on the second date, and then take it from there.

Originally Posted by edmorel

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c) I don't think it was a date, I think they were hanging out and he got her a candle/cake. Doing that in a large group of people is rather wierd.
Maybe I misread the OP but it sounds like a one-on-one dinner date to me. And a planned one too. And it sounds like she wants to do it again too.

Originally Posted by gdl203

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Maybe I misread the OP but it sounds like a one-on-one dinner date to me. And a planned one too. And it sounds like she wants to do it again too.

BTW, I love these back and forths on girl issues as I find that they are always more humorous and civil then the CEsspool back and forths.

Anyway, he said

3. Her b'day was Thursday...I was with her (group setting) on Wed (technically thursday as well considering we stayed until after midnight) and had some drinks after dodgeball...I bought some pie with a candle in it as well. Anyway, back to the Facebook issue...she had a party on Thursday night (I cleaned my apt.) and I just saw the pics this AM....all girls, like a dozen of them....not a one guy there....I think thats a good sign??? Am I wrong? I read as anticle talking about how facebook status is total BS and that people (girls especially) screw around with that stuff for all sorts of ridiculous reasons.[/

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And the last bolded line I find weird for a 30 year old professional to be worrying about, especially for a girl that he just had his first date with, if you can call it that.


I think he needs to back off and let her come to him.

I believe the OP said he was 26, so don't assume he's an old man like me and you, Ed.

Also, I'm sure the girl knows that it was a date. It's just that her mildly aloof demeanor suggest that the OP needs to reel it in a bit and not get too far ahead of himself. I agree that some of the advice people get around here would likely make one act like an asshole. In the end, the trick is to be confident and vulnerable at the same time. Either one without the other leads you either to be needy and weak or vulgar and rude. It's not easy to be both - a perpetual challenge really - and it usually comes more from life experience than from trying to follow advice.