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THE ESEF Skys - Page 3

post #31 of 146
4/21/08 at 4:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by padronlover View Post
Also our denim mill strongly suggests that we sell all of our denims for 220 +. They have Iron heart as a client and they use a lower grade cotton than us and they sell for 260 at least.
Signature worthy.
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post #32 of 146
4/21/08 at 8:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by padronlover View Post
Generally if you are honest, retail is tripple the cost of the making
of the garment. So our SKY at 120 are whole saled to distrubtion
companies at 240 and they would sell for 480.



Sounds like some theories the guy made up on the spot. I agree with A Harris, their pricing scheme seems rather shady.
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post #33 of 146
4/21/08 at 8:44pm
Jeans selling for 480 is serious lol, but what about the pricing scheme seems shady?
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post #34 of 146
4/21/08 at 10:25pm
If the jeans come from the same place as Ironheart and use better fabric than Ironheart, why should they retail for less (and signifigantly less at that) than Ironheart?

We don't really know if the above is true, but everyone in the thread that has the jeans sings nothing but praise for the materials used.
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post #35 of 146
4/21/08 at 10:26pm
If they really accepted orders at or below cost for promo purposes, I feel bad for them. That was not a very good strategy. But I wish them the best, as it sounds like a good product. I'd have ordered a pair if I could fit a slim cut.
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post #36 of 146
4/21/08 at 10:29pm
The end result is the jeans are nice, regardless of whether or not their pricing strategy was ultimately the wrong decision. but for those who got in on the preorder, I think we all got a great pair of jeans that are arguably worth the full retail, which I dont think there would be as much flak if these jeans had a more "pedigree" name behind them.
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post #37 of 146
4/21/08 at 10:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by skunkworks View Post
Jeans selling for 480 is serious lol, but what about the pricing scheme seems shady?

The math is off, tripling 120 gives 360, not 480.

AFAIK, the markup between production costs and MSRP are typically attributed to designer's overhead costs (operating runway shows, PR, admin etc.) and distributer/retailer's overhead costs. Of course the designer cashes in some, but the above described factors take up a huge chunk of the net gain. I might be wrong in assuming this, but these costs are relatively minimal in ESEF's case, yet they still charge an industry standard premium.

Edit: and that is not to say his email response didn't open a whole can of worm...
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post #38 of 146
4/21/08 at 10:42pm
Well, the existence of a distribution deal implies that there will be both distribution and retailer markup.

The other expenses (i.e. runway shows, PR, advertising, etc...) you mention are next to nothing for most of the denim brands talked about on these forums.
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post #39 of 146
4/21/08 at 10:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by whacked View Post
The math is off, tripling 120 gives 360, not 480.

AFAIK, the markup between production costs and MSRP are typically attributed to designer's overhead costs (operating runway shows, PR, admin etc.) and distributer/retailer's overhead costs. Of course the designer cashes in some, but the above described factors take up a huge chunk of the net gain. I might be wrong in assuming this, but these costs are relatively minimal in ESEF's case, yet they still charge an industry standard premium.

Edit: and that is not to say his email response didn't open a whole can of worm...

Exactly along the lines of what I was going to post.

One would think with little known about the brand, and less overhead than Ironheart that even if they were slightly more to manufacture the price would still be somewhat lower retail. (not $120 per pair retail, but you get the idea.)
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post #40 of 146
4/21/08 at 10:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by whacked View Post
The math is off, tripling 120 gives 360, not 480.

AFAIK, the markup between production costs and MSRP are typically attributed to designer's overhead costs (operating runway shows, PR, admin etc.) and distributer/retailer's overhead costs. Of course the designer cashes in some, but the above described factors take up a huge chunk of the net gain. I might be wrong in assuming this, but these costs are relatively minimal in ESEF's case, yet they still charge an industry standard premium.

Edit: and that is not to say his email response didn't open a whole can of worm...

Oh I see. Thanks for the response.

I think the "designer overhead costs" that account for the ESEF markup are mostly from paying shills to spam this forum
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post #41 of 146
4/21/08 at 10:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven from ESEF View Post
here's an email from steven that i got regarding the pricing:

I kinda got my self into a jam, Since I was selling the jeans for
lower than it costs to make + shipping, people that didnt know that
are posting about how crazy it is that I raised my prices. The prices
are to be competitive to the brands I compare to.

Its too bad people cant see the big picture.
Oh, I get the big picture. I just don't understand how he expects to sell a completely new brand for that much. Like I've said before, I don't really have that much knowledge on denim, but the brands he's comparing ESEF to (Iron Heart, APC) have press, reputation, etc. etc. to sell.

On the other hand, when you look into ESEF you see a couple of preliminary runs, apparently a graphic T business, and feedback varying from disgust to complete satisfaction (he answered my questions promptly and comprehensively). But you've gotta start somewhere, I suppose, and he's already got some Japanese distro going.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven from ESEF
We want customers coming to us for a damn good pair of jeans. Not customers that are looking to wear a jean with a selvege edge for just over a 100 dollars, this would be someone for APC... which is a brand that I admire.
Cute.
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post #42 of 146
4/21/08 at 11:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Get Smart View Post
The end result is the jeans are nice, regardless of whether or not their pricing strategy was ultimately the wrong decision. but for those who got in on the preorder, I think we all got a great pair of jeans that are arguably worth the full retail, which I dont think there would be as much flak if these jeans had a more "pedigree" name behind them.
On the one hand, I'm kinda sorry that I missed out on some pretty random jeans for relatively cheap especially when they're going for double the price now. I know you had a great experience from them, and so have a few others, but damn if it still didn't look like a total risk. Stitching, people not getting their orders, exchange problems, the sizing changing without warning after people had already purchased, etc. Nice denim's one thing but at least a pedigree ensures just what the hell you're gonna get.
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post #43 of 146
4/21/08 at 11:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by whodini View Post
On the one hand, I'm kinda sorry that I missed out on some pretty random jeans for relatively cheap especially when they're going for double the price now.

I know you had a great experience from them, and so have a few others, but damn if it still didn't look like a total risk. Stitching, people not getting their orders, exchange problems, the sizing changing without warning after people had already purchased, etc.

Nice denim's one thing but at least a pedigree ensures just what the hell you're gonna get.

In my case, I think I was lucky to have found out about it once the jeans were actually made and more info on the actual product known. If I had gone in on the first Ori presale I def would have bought the wrong size, based on how esef described the jean fit and sizing on sufu. Once I got the Ori and it was kosher and the customer service excellent, getting in on the Sky preorder wasnt risky at all.
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post #44 of 146
4/21/08 at 11:29pm
This makes me so sad. This very day I thought that I should probably order a pair of skys now that I have some money to spend,and as I haven't heard anything about esef in months and thought their preorders basically lasted forever...and then I came here and saw this topic.

Few things are sadder than losing the opportunity to get cheap, good denim...
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post #45 of 146
4/21/08 at 11:47pm
I'm just pissed that there's no way I'll ever get the straight leg cut at the preorder price. Wasn't ever interested in the Oris and Skys because of the cut, though they seemed solid if that's the kind of cut you like (these were pretty much made for GS). I have to say I am finding the backlash against esef pretty amusing and mostly ridiculous.
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