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post #31 of 310
Yeah, one has as lot more muscle, a lot more strength, and a lot more fat because of his diet. What's your point? You're leaving out a magnitude of factors. There are strength trainers who have exquisite bodies, and they're a hell of a lot stronger than body builders. Your muscles either grow or they don't, they can't grow in "different ways", and compound lifts are much more effective at building mass and strength than isolation exercises, although isolation exercises are more necessary to target specific stubborn areas as you get bigger. The aesthetic of your body is purely a function of muscle mass and bodyfat. How much muscle mass you have is dependent on how effective your weight training is, and diet. How much bodyfat you have is dependent on your diet and cardio. So two guys with a lot of muscle can have very different physiques depending on their diet, and thus, their bodyfat. The aesthetic difference between the first guy you posted and the second guy is due to diet and resulting bodyfat. I mean, exactly what are you saying by posting those pictures? That doing lots of heavy squats and deadlifts will make you fat and strong? You do know that the second guy only looks like that by losing water weight and bodyfat through diet and maybe some cardio, and he's at his weakest on stage there, right? It kinda sounds like you don't know what you're talking about.
post #32 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat-Elvis View Post
Yeah, one has as lot more muscle, a lot more strength, and a lot more fat because of his diet. What's your point? You're leaving out a magnitude of factors. There are strength trainers who have exquisite bodies, and they're a hell of a lot stronger than body builders. Your muscles either grow or they don't, they can't grow in "different ways", and compound lifts are much more effective at building mass and strength than isolation exercises, although isolation exercises are more necessary to target specific stubborn areas as you get bigger. The aesthetic of your body is purely a function of muscle mass and bodyfat. How much muscle mass you have is dependent on how effective your weight training is, and diet. How much bodyfat you have is dependent on your diet and cardio. So two guys with a lot of muscle can have very different physiques depending on their diet, and thus, their bodyfat.

The aesthetic difference between the first guy you posted and the second guy is due to diet and resulting bodyfat. I mean, exactly what are you saying by posting those pictures? That doing lots of heavy squats and deadlifts will make you fat and strong? You do know that the second guy only looks like that by losing water weight and bodyfat through diet and maybe some cardio, and he's at his weakest on stage there, right? It kinda sounds like you don't know what you're talking about.

ok, I am confused, what, exactly, are disputing?


look, are you saying that a kettlebell is a better tool to build a bar body than a dumbell? or a better tool than a barbell to build strength? what are you yapping about, elvis?

each of the above is a tool, it has its strenghts and it weaknesses. and just like you can build a house with a stapler and a tea spoon, you can develop your body in different ways with tools that are less appropriate, if that is what turns you on.
post #33 of 310
I think kettlebells are great. But if you're looking for perfection (in terms of strength and aesthetics), you need to work with lots of other types of weights on top of kettlebells.

That includes barbells (heavy squats, deadlifts, bench presses, military presses), dumbells (for some extra concentration extercises), kettlebells (for power and dynamic exercises, and core exercises), olympic lifts (for power), and apparatus gymnastics (symmetry, overall muscles, and muscles you never thought you have).

To just look good, you can concentrate on barbells and dumbells -- as they work on mass and outside definition.

Btw, I think gymnasts have the highest aesthetics, but it takes time are real effort.
post #34 of 310
^ Good post.
post #35 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by globetrotter View Post
ok, I am confused, what, exactly, are disputing?


look, are you saying that a kettlebell is a better tool to build a bar body than a dumbell? or a better tool than a barbell to build strength? what are you yapping about, elvis?

each of the above is a tool, it has its strenghts and it weaknesses. and just like you can build a house with a stapler and a tea spoon, you can develop your body in different ways with tools that are less appropriate, if that is what turns you on.

All I was saying about kettleballs is that they may be better for certain exercises because you're holding it above its center of gravity, so you don't have to worry about balancing it....such as using a dumbbell during an exercise like the turkish get-up, which can be difficult. Using a kettleball is better because there's no balancing the dumbbell, therefor you can use more weight to work your core better; you don't have to worry so much about your hand/wrist/forearm being a 'bottleneck' for an exercise that's mostly meant to work your core.

Quote:
To just look good, you can concentrate on barbells and dumbells -- as they work on mass and outside definition.
Exactly what is "outside definition"? I ask because when 99.99% of people use the term "muscle definition", they're really talking about how much fat is around the muscle and thus the muscle's visible definition. Although in the long run doing compound lifts is better for "definition" because not only are compound lifts better cardio if done right, but it's a fact that they build a lot more muscle mass, and muscle burns fat.

There's really no such thing as different weights for different purposes (one kind for strength, one kind of mass, one kind for symmetry, etc). Again, you're either working your muscle or you're not, and compound lifts (squats, deadlifts, power cleans, and yes, turkish get-ups, etc) are better- for strength and mass- than isolation exercises. Working your core/biggest muscles puts your body in a muscle-building state, for all your muscles. You'd be surprised how much an exercise like the deadlift or power clean works your biceps. Hell, doing planks works your biceps really well....you don't have to be doing a curl motion to work your biceps. The whole myth that doing certain kinds of exercises are better for mass, and others better for "definition", and others better for strength etc needs to be put to rest. It's up there with "spot-reducing fat" as far as validity.

Trust me. Take two twins, and put one on an isolation exercise-only regimen for two years, and another on a deadlift/squat/power clean/bench press-only regimen for only half that time, both with the same good diets, and see which one is more built at the end. Hint: it's not mr. dumbbell curl.

The only reason to make isolation exercises a staple of your regimen is if you're already experienced at weight training and you've hit a plateau with a certain muscle group. Then you should work it separately. But compound lifts should still be the core of your regimen, and if you do it right, it's all you really need to be muscular and strong. If you want to be "cut", that's a matter of diet and cardio.
post #36 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat-Elvis View Post
All I was saying about kettleballs is that they may be better for certain exercises


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat-Elvis View Post
Using a kettleball is better because there's no balancing the dumbbell


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat-Elvis View Post
There's really no such thing as different weights for different purposes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat-Elvis View Post
Take two twins, and put one on an isolation exercise-only regimen for two years, and another on a deadlift/squat/power clean/bench press-only regimen for only half that time, both with the same good diets, and see which one is more built at the end. Hint: it's not mr. dumbbell curl.

Contradiction much?

You seem to be making the point that compound exercises are better than isolation. But you still think that there aren't different tools for different purposes? Wouldn't the compound-exercise tools be better than isolation-exercise tools? Barbells better than machines?

You also mentioned that KBs are better for certain purposes. Which is what globetrotter and others already mentioned. It seems the only person you're arguing against is yourself.
post #37 of 310
Again, my point was that the kettleball is better for certain exercises. That in no way contradicts what I've been saying all along, that your muscle is either worked to a certain degree or it's not, there is no "doing one exerercise for strength" and "another exercise for mass" and "another exercise for toning", which is what everybody else seems to have convinced themselves of. Some equipment is just better suited for certain exercises than others. Ever try replacing dumbbell flys with two barbells? The original point of this thread was asking if kettleballs are better than dumbbells/barbells for anything, and some people were saying no. I refuted that several times with the example of the turkish get-up, specifically the first paragraph of my last post. What's the confusion?
post #38 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat-Elvis View Post
Again, my point was that the kettleball is better for certain exercises. The original point of this thread was asking if kettleballs are better than dumbbells/barbells for anything, and some people were saying no. I refuted that several times with the example of the turkish get-up, specifically the first paragraph of my last post. What's the confusion?


FE, it seems that the problem comes with your reading comprehension - read the thread, and let us know if you still think that your above post is accurate.
post #39 of 310
back from the dead! I started kettlebelling about five months ago, but since then I've been having trouble performing the snatch. I own the Russian Kettlebell Challenge and I've seen a lot of video of the drill, but despite any adjustments I try and make, I still feel some slight pain/discomfort around my shoulder blades (near the traps) after I perform a set. Definitely doesn't feel normal. Anyone have any good tips for KB snatches that can help me out?
post #40 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertorex View Post
back from the dead!

I started kettlebelling about five months ago, but since then I've been having trouble performing the snatch. I own the Russian Kettlebell Challenge and I've seen a lot of video of the drill, but despite any adjustments I try and make, I still feel some slight pain/discomfort around my shoulder blades (near the traps) after I perform a set. Definitely doesn't feel normal. Anyone have any good tips for KB snatches that can help me out?

see if anybody offers a class near you. I took a class and it helped me develop technique. you don't need more than one class, just one will teach you what you need.
post #41 of 310
kettlebells are my favorite weights. I had a couple of injuries and got tired of dealing with a fucked shoulder and felt that while I was getting stronger with the big three, I wasn't feeling healthier/more athletic. So I bought a kettlebell on a whim and started doing the basics (swings, snatches, presses, some rows, TGUs and other crap). I was paying a lot of attention to the proper form and as a result learned everything the right way. After a couple of months, I felt like a new man (mind you, my diet was already very good and I lifted on and off for the past 10+ years - I was never in bad shape to begin with other than the injuries and aches and all that) I think I am in better shape now than in a long long time - I am not just strong but fast, my endurance is off the chart, I have a ton of energy and I feel like all of my bodyparts are working together in unison. I am also much more active now - i think working out with kettlebells somehow gets my body craving for more intensity and physical activity. I constantly wanna do pushups, run sprints, play with heavy things on the street and so on. Before I felt strong but heavy and slow before, but now I feel like a fucking spartan out of 300. No injuries, my shoulders, lower back, wrists - all are fucking liquid steel now. As far as appearance - it would be much tougher to get a proper pro-bodybuilder type physique with the bells, but I am not looking for that. It's much more of a strength and endurance by the way of getting everything to work together as opposed to just pure mass. I am much more wiry, lean, and mean now - not the skinny muscle, but more of a classical greek look. My girl was amazed by the results by the way. P.S. I do KB 3 times a week and usually do something physical and fun on the off days - a couple hundred pushups, a long hike or a bike ride, etc. P.P.S. If I couldn't do KB, I'd do something like big three + some kind of endurance/conditioning. Maybe a less ghey version of crossfit.
post #42 of 310
What weight kb do you have? I've been using a 24kb (1.5 pood heh) for about 3 years now. I agree with a lot of what you say, and basically do a less "ghey" version of crossfit.
post #43 of 310
16/24, but 24 is my friends - need to get my own. Also want another 16, or maybe another 24 in a bit for doubles work.
post #44 of 310
I'm trying to get up to 24 as my standard, but it is a bitch. 16 is my standard now. my gym actually has about 100 kb's, up to 40 kg
post #45 of 310
I used to be a (ACE) certifed trainer years ago and now I too have converted to kettlebell training. I started doing it over a year ago while serving in Afghanistan and doing crossfit with my unit. But when I returned Stateside last September I turned to just Kettlebell training with RKC certified instructors and found myself to be in better functional shape. Although I still occasionally do push ups (and variations of it), dips, pull-ups (both weighted and unweighted); I'm convinced that you can get a total body strength and cardio workout with Kettlebells alone.

Currently, I do most of my kettlebell work with single 24 kg bells (1.5 pood); 16kg bells (1 pood) when doing double bell exercises; single 32 kg bells (2 pood) mostly when doing dead lifts.

These are two of the links for kettlebell training that I have found to be useful:

http://www.russiankettlebells.com/index2.html

http://www.mikemahler.com/

The key is to get proper instruction when training with kettlebells.
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