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Military Boot Camp for Civilians? - Page 3

post #31 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiecollector View Post
These are good suggestions especially #2,4. My objective was never to pretend I was an actual soldier. I had thought pretty hard about the USAF Reserves for a while and still might sign up. I'll have to research more about it. I think my biggest hesitation is being put in with standard ground troops when I'm highly trained in engineering.

Is the Air National Guard too pussy?

don't worry about that, not everybody is sharp end. the benifits you gain from serving, from being part of a bigger organization, from putting your own ego aside to serve a group goal - these are things that you get whether you are an infantryman or a air controler. but you may be suprised, you might find something that you really enjoy.

also, every infantry unit has an engineering team - I don't know exactly how it works in the US, but every IDF battalian has an engineering team, adn every brigade has an engineering company. that is a very cool job - when an army needs to move someplace they need to clear the roads, build bridges, etc. just an idea, but that might be an available option.
post #32 of 60
Wow, this sounds like a lot of fun:

(From the seal website)

First Phase (Basic Conditioning)

First Phase is nine weeks in length. Continued physical conditioning in the areas of running swimming, and calisthenics grow harder and harder as the weeks progress. Students will participate in weekly four mile timed runs in boots, timed obstacle courses, swim distances up to two miles wearing fins in the ocean, and learn small boat seamanship.

The first five weeks of First Phase prepare you for the sixth week, better known as "Hell Week." During this week, students participate in five and one half days of continuous training, with a maximum of four hours of sleep. This week is designed as the ultimate test of one's physical and mental motivation while in First Phase. Hell Week proves to those who make it that the human body can do ten times the amount of work the average man thinks possible. During Hell Week, you will learn the value of coolheadedness, perseverance, and above all, TEAMWORK. The remaining three weeks are devoted to teaching various methods of conducting hydrographic surveys and how to conduct a hydrographic chart.


Obviously not for everyone though.
post #33 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnoldh View Post
Wow, this sounds like a lot of fun:

(From the seal website)

First Phase (Basic Conditioning)

First Phase is nine weeks in length. Continued physical conditioning in the areas of running swimming, and calisthenics grow harder and harder as the weeks progress. Students will participate in weekly four mile timed runs in boots, timed obstacle courses, swim distances up to two miles wearing fins in the ocean, and learn small boat seamanship.

The first five weeks of First Phase prepare you for the sixth week, better known as "Hell Week." During this week, students participate in five and one half days of continuous training, with a maximum of four hours of sleep. This week is designed as the ultimate test of one's physical and mental motivation while in First Phase. Hell Week proves to those who make it that the human body can do ten times the amount of work the average man thinks possible. During Hell Week, you will learn the value of coolheadedness, perseverance, and above all, TEAMWORK. The remaining three weeks are devoted to teaching various methods of conducting hydrographic surveys and how to conduct a hydrographic chart.


Obviously not for everyone though.




but here is the thing - you get through this type of thing, and for the rest of your life you remembe that you achieved it. everything else is relativly easy.
post #34 of 60
Join the foreign legion and be done with it.
post #35 of 60
The SEALs, IIRC, have the highest washout rate of any SOF units in the US armed forces.
post #36 of 60
^^^^+1. The average class size for BUD/S starts out at around 60-80 and by the time hell weak rolls through they are down to about 30-40 and then once graduation rolls along anywhere from 15-20 graduate. Plus before BUD/S they have a new screener program that screens out people that they think are not even ready for BUD/S.
post #37 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violinist View Post
Join the foreign legion and be done with it.

FL is a combat organization - the vast majoirty of the units aren't as tough as a light infantry/special forces unit.
post #38 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
The SEALs, IIRC, have the highest washout rate of any SOF units in the US armed forces.

it is very hard to understand, no matter how athletic you are, how hard the training will be. in the IDF, there were about 7 light infantry units, and the seal equivelant was considered the hardest. the one I was in was considered about the 4rth hardest (or course, we liked to say we were third hardest, and some of the others liked to say we were 5th hardest, its not an exact science) . we had 125 applicants for every position with half of the people who started finishing training, I would say that the seals had significanlty more. so I can't talk for the level of difficulty of the seals, except that it was significantly harder than what I experienced.

some guys broke down completly, even people who had done very well in civillian athletic challenges. its just not something that you know before hand how you will handle it.
post #39 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mblova View Post
^^^^+1.


Plus before BUD/S they have a new screener program that screens out people that they think are not even ready for BUD/S.

In the UK we have a similar system now for our combined Special Forces selection (SAS and SBS).

There is a pre-selection to give candidates an idea of what to expect.

A friend of mine passed that and the hills phase a year or two ago, only to fail on officers week, poor lad!

Even then most go on to fail in the remainder of the selection, its unbelievably demanding.

We have had a year in which not one candidate passed selection, (run twice yearly) although allegations of 'creeping excellence' abound.
post #40 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonk View Post
In the UK we have a similar system now for our combined Special Forces selection (SAS and SBS).

There is a pre-selection to give candidates an idea of what to expect.

A friend of mine passed that and the hills phase a year or two ago, only to fail on officers week, poor lad!

Even then most go on to fail in the remainder of the selection, its unbelievably demanding.

We have had a year in which not one candidate passed selection, (run twice yearly) although allegations of 'creeping excellence' abound.

Nonk,

in the UK the special forces are selected from seasoned troops, no? or do they feed from conscripts, as well?
post #41 of 60
Globetrotter,

We have no 'conscripts' here, we are an all volunteer Armed Forces, but taking your point to mean new recruits, no we recruit from seasoned troops, not directly from civilian life. (Hence the age profile of our Special Forces tends to be older than in the US for example)

Applicants for Special Forces selection (well, SAS and SBS anyway, but I presume the new SRR is the same) have to have served a few years first; 3 I think.

There are exceptions of course (this is the UK, nothing is that simple!). Members of the Special Forces Reserves, which in the case of the Army are mainly 21(Artist's Rifles) SAS and 23 SAS can apply to go on Regular Special Forces selection, despite notionally at least being 'civilians' and part-timers (the boundaries are very blurred, most Territorial Army Special Forces soldiers will devote an enormous amount of time to it) (Bear Grylls fans will know he was a member of 21 SAS, as was Sir Ranulph Fiennes)

This means that if they pass, they have to be allocated a 'parent unit'. All our Special Forces retain a parent unit to which they return if they are no longer required. Soldiers generally serve in Special Forces until they retire or are kicked out, unless they desire other specialist employment such as pilot (we recruit most Army pilots from within the Army and most are NCO's not Officers) whereas Officers tend to do a tour or two, return to the wider Army and then return later to command a Squadron etc). Incidentally, the parent unit will be named as the soldiers unit if he is killed in combat, not the Special Forces unit, although it is in many cases obvious.

Because of this we have soldiers with parent units in which they have never actually served. The Parachute Regiment seems to be a common one, as they are closest in ethos to the SAS and already provide around 60% of members.

As far as I know, members of the Commonwealth SAS Regiments are able to go straight on our selection without serving in the British Army first (Australia and New Zealand)

I know that New Zealand has had direct entry to its SAS from civilian life at one time or another, but to my knowledge, we have never had such a scheme.

Just to confuse matters further, we now have Tri-Service selection,(Yes, even the RAF are allowed to try out!) meaning that it is the same for Navy and Army Special Forces, and candidates can elect to serve in either. There are as far as I know now some Army guys serving in the SBS, but these tend to be existing Army Commandos who have already had extensive experience in our Commando Brigade, which is a Royal Marines and therefore Royal Navy formation.

I am not an expert, nor have I ever tried out for, or served in Special Forces, and I am long out of the Army, but this is the situation as far as I can remember and from the quite a few SAS guys I have met over the years and the ones I still know.
post #42 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonk View Post
Globetrotter,

We have no 'conscripts' here, we are an all volunteer Armed Forces, but taking your point to mean new recruits, no we recruit from seasoned troops, not directly from civilian life. (Hence the age profile of our Special Forces tends to be older than in the US for example)

Applicants for Special Forces selection (well, SAS and SBS anyway, but I presume the new SRR is the same) have to have served a few years first; 3 I think.

There are exceptions of course (this is the UK, nothing is that simple!). Members of the Special Forces Reserves, which in the case of the Army are mainly 21(Artist's Rifles) SAS and 23 SAS can apply to go on Regular Special Forces selection, despite notionally at least being 'civilians' and part-timers (the boundaries are very blurred, most Territorial Army Special Forces soldiers will devote an enormous amount of time to it) (Bear Grylls fans will know he was a member of 21 SAS, as was Sir Ranulph Fiennes)

This means that if they pass, they have to be allocated a 'parent unit'. All our Special Forces retain a parent unit to which they return if they are no longer required. Soldiers generally serve in Special Forces until they retire or are kicked out, unless they desire other specialist employment such as pilot (we recruit most Army pilots from within the Army and most are NCO's not Officers) whereas Officers tend to do a tour or two, return to the wider Army and then return later to command a Squadron etc). Incidentally, the parent unit will be named as the soldiers unit if he is killed in combat, not the Special Forces unit, although it is in many cases obvious.

Because of this we have soldiers with parent units in which they have never actually served. The Parachute Regiment seems to be a common one, as they are closest in ethos to the SAS and already provide around 60% of members.

As far as I know, members of the Commonwealth SAS Regiments are able to go straight on our selection without serving in the British Army first (Australia and New Zealand)

I know that New Zealand has had direct entry to its SAS from civilian life at one time or another, but to my knowledge, we have never had such a scheme.

Just to confuse matters further, we now have Tri-Service selection,(Yes, even the RAF are allowed to try out!) meaning that it is the same for Navy and Army Special Forces, and candidates can elect to serve in either. There are as far as I know now some Army guys serving in the SBS, but these tend to be existing Army Commandos who have already had extensive experience in our Commando Brigade, which is a Royal Marines and therefore Royal Navy formation.

I am not an expert, nor have I ever tried out for, or served in Special Forces, and I am long out of the Army, but this is the situation as far as I can remember and from the quite a few SAS guys I have met over the years and the ones I still know.


interesting -

in the IDF we essentially have no profetional riflemen, career soldiers are comanders (either NCO's or officers) with very few exeptions - the main one being the naval camandos, their long training requires them to sign for 5 years. other than that, if you want to be a career grunt, you have to transfer to a special unit of the police.

the special forces feed from new recuits (yes, that is the term I was looking for). there are companies assosiated with the airforce, the general staff, navy (the naval comandos) and then there are companies assosiated with each of the infantry brigades. you inlist in the infantry brigades - in some cases this requires candicy "tests" - I am not really sure how to discribe them but basically a serious of very difficult tasks that most people drop out of. and when enough people have dropped out they stop and if you are still left you are in.

then, after you are in the infantry unit, you do another set of tests to be in the special companies of the infantry unit. that can go on for 5 days until enough people have dropped out.

but, effectivly, that means that almost all of the members start training at 18.
post #43 of 60
Completely different from our system, although, we too have endless complications to the so-called system.

There are specialist units which, while not strictly 'Special Forces', are formed from regular soldiers who undertake in-house selection. The Pathfinder Platoon of 16 Air-Moblie Brigade and the the Brigade Recce troop of 3 Commando Brigade etc etc are various examples.

These are seen as a good grounding for full-up Special Forces selection.

Also, while we don't have conscripts, I think I am right in saying that the average soldier only servres his minimum commitment, 3 years or so, so the majority of our Private soldiers are relatively (in terms of time served) inexperienced.

Their time in combat however, given that we are fighting on two fronts is rather different.

Interesting that Prince Harry recently served in Helmand. I do remember being told here that the Armed Forces consisted of trailer trash who should be confined to some sort of reservation!

Not ours anyway!
post #44 of 60
Nonk, you live in Ireland, not the U.K.
post #45 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Connemara View Post
Nonk, you live in Ireland, not the U.K.

Nonk, do you think boot camp would be a good idea for young Connor McCloud?
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