Living in San Francisco

I know there are a good number of SF dwellers on this board. Does anyone care to offer advice about neighborhoods suitable for a single mid-20s guy? Advantages and disadvantages of areas you've lived in? I'll be moving to SF in the not-too-distant future and will probably be making a decent amount of money, but I'm conservative with my finances and don't want to throw away more than necessary on rent (i.e., value will enter into my considerations). I'd prefer to live somewhere that doesn't feel deserted in the evenings, and I'm fairly tolerant of noise. I'd also like not to be robbed or stabbed if possible. There are several neighborhood-guide websites, of course, but I'd like to hear some perspectives from current residents. Thanks for any tips

I have lived in Pacific Heights for the past 20 years. I like it for some of the reasons you mention. It is fairly safe (anywhere in an urban setting can be dangerous) and there are things going on into the evening. SF is not like NYC; it isn't a happening place all night long. If you want dinner at 3AM, you will be stuck with take-out pizza or eating at Mel's Diner. The other place in the city that I really like is North Beach; it is SF's Little Italy and not actually a beach. It feels very European. The big problem with that area is with parking. If you live in North Beach, either don't have a car or have a garage space. Remember, the garage space may cost as much as your rent! (only slight exaggeration) If you are gay, you will probably like the Castro. It probably has more night-life than other areas. The areas I am not too keen on are the Sunset and the Richmond. They are a bit too neighborhood-like for me; both areas seem more like suburbs than real urban living. They also get more fog.

Very few areas of San Francisco can be described as a young persons paradise. The city does tend to be in bed by 10pm.

The marina/cow hollow/pac heights are all great areas to live, but I would only suggest them if you're the fraternity type.

North Beach is a great area, but yes, parking is a concern. It also trends a little touristy on the nightlife side and a little older. But if you like Italian food, there is no better place in the city.

I never lived in the richmond, but it always seemed a little less pretentious than other parts of the City and I tended to enjoy the bars, restaurants and people out there more as well. You can find more cool clubs with better music and variety of life than in the other parts.

I always thought the Marina was the quintissential mid-20s place to live, but it's not a value proposition by any means.

You should look at the Mission or Noe Valley.

It's my understanding that rich people live in Pacific Heights. I can't imagine rents being reasonably priced, even for, say, a young law associate working at a big firm.

Is it me, or does SF have a dramatic shortage of good looking women? Although I drove into the City to hang out several times a month when I used to live in the Bay Area (during my early-mid 20s, I hardly saw any hot women.

Originally Posted by teddieriley

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It's my understanding that rich people live in Pacific Heights. I can't imagine rents being reasonably priced, even for, say, a young law associate working at a big firm.

Is it me, or does SF have a dramatic shortage of good looking women? Although I drove into the City to hang out several times a month when I used to live in the Bay Area (during my early-mid 20s, I hardly saw any hot women.


The studio apartments in my building start at $2,200.00/month so I am told. I am sure there are some buildings in the area with studios starting at around $1,500.00/month. It is certainly no more expensive than NYC; it is probably less than similar apartments in Manhattan.

Sure, there are plenty of hot women! Unfortunately they are with the big, hairy bull-dykes.

Originally Posted by teddieriley

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It's my understanding that rich people live in Pacific Heights. I can't imagine rents being reasonably priced, even for, say, a young law associate working at a big firm. Is it me, or does SF have a dramatic shortage of good looking women? Although I drove into the City to hang out several times a month when I used to live in the Bay Area (during my early-mid 20s, I hardly saw any hot women.
SF has the highest multiple of ownership prices to rents in the US. Because of that, it is possible to live reasonably well as a renter in areas that are near unaffordable as far as purchase. The area of San Francsico that runs from Presidio Heights to Telegraph Hill and encompasses Pac Heights, Cow Hollow, The Marina, Russian Hill and North Beach is the "nicest" in the city. Each neighborhood is a little different, and has its own character. Another large area is Sunset/Richmond which can also be very nice to live in, and is much less expensive. South of Market is younger and cheaper than the first I mentioned but more expensive than the second. You will find mostly transplants there as it is not very San Francisco. Finally, you have the Mission/Noe Valley/Castro area. This is also a good place to live, but it takes the right kind of person. The Mission is kind of hipster and wanna be hipster, the Castro is gay and Noe Valley is off limits to anybody without a baby carriage. I've lived in Pacific Heights, North Beach and the Marina, and now I live in Russian Hill. I kind of dislike Pac Heights and am not fond of the Marina, to say the least, while I love North Beach for its more lively atmosphere. Russian Hill is nice, but quiet and boring. A lot of people love it for that reason.

Thanks for all the feedback guys! From reading your comments and various websites, I'm starting to get a sense of which neighborhoods to look more closely at. I'll probably be working in the financial district, and I'm a fan of sunlight, so I doubt I'll seriously look at the Richmond and the Sunset, though I have enjoyed the times I've spent in the Richmond. I love the Mission, but these days it seems to be harder to find decent apartments there for a single person than in some of the more upscale areas on the northern edges of the city. Still, I'll definitely be including the Mission in my apartment search. Iammatt, what specifically do you dislike so much about the Marina? Sounds like North Beach should be a serious consideration for me...

Originally Posted by Asch

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Sounds like North Beach should be a serious consideration for me...

I would definately look into North Beach. It is sunny and you can walk to the financial district (or take a short bus ride). You wouldn't even need a car.

Originally Posted by iammatt

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SF has the highest multiple of ownership prices to rents in the US. Because of that, it is possible to live reasonably well as a renter in areas that are near unaffordable as far as purchase.

I have to wonder how these abnormally high multiples can be sustained in the long run. If rental prices don't reflect landlords' requirements to earn a sufficient return on investment, their capital will end up going elsewhere. I see this to some degree in my area where the rise in the price of single-family homes makes them very poor investments as rental properties, but that's not why people buy them so they can continue to trade at such high multiples. Multi-unit properties and apartment buildings however tend to have much lower multiples since investors need to justify their purchase price.

Originally Posted by Manton

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Noe Valley.
Thank you, yes. I wanted to include this in my post, but could not remember the name, Noe should definitely be on your visit list. And to add to iammatt's post, some of the hoods in SF are very small and the various hills keep them separate. If you like the atmosphere of the Marina (it is sunny, pretty to walk in and you will see good looking girls the first time you go through), but want to have something calmer to come home to during the week, it is very easy for you to live in parts of Russian Hill and make your way over to the Marina for the night life. Several of the other neighborhoods also form little clusters so it's not required that you live in a specific one to be able to enjoy another, you just have to recognize which ones connect and which ones don't. If you can stomach it, you might also think about getting roommates initially until you get comfortable with where you'd like to live in the city. You'll feel less gouged. As a special treat, consider signing up for the roommates mailing list on Craigslist. You'll have plenty of entertainment and an exposure to some of San Francisco's more unique elements without having to meet them in person. I used to forward some of the most entertaining ads to friends.

Originally Posted by countdemoney

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Thank you, yes. I wanted to include this in my post, but could not remember the name, Noe should definitely be on your visit list.

Matt says it's full of little kids. I though no one had children in SF anymore. It's one of the only shrinking urban school districts in the country.

Originally Posted by Manton

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Matt says it's full of little kids. I though no one had children in SF anymore. It's one of the only shrinking urban school districts in the country.

It's probably changed since my time, but I always remembered meeting some of the coolest and hottest girls - tall, in-shape, liked guys and cool. Perhaps my memories are coloring my recommendation.

Noe Valley is fine if you are a lesbian or have kids or are a lesbian with kids. Oh, it helps to like fog too.

I live in a neighborhood called "Dogpatch", it's on the other side of 280 from Potrero Hill, close to Mission Bay and South Beach. I can walk to the baseball park, take an easy Muni ride to downtown or to work (I work in Jackson Square, one of the coolest neighborhoods in all of SF) or North Beach for dinner at Coi or I can take a 7 dollar cab ride to the Mission (which sucks). Best of all, there is lots of sun, tons of parking, no fog and it is as close to being undiscovered as SF can get.

Lofts here aren't cheap to buy or rent, but then again, nothing is here in The City.

North Beach is nice and I like Hayes Valley a lot too to live in. If you have no car, one of those places downtown, near Union Square - like on Bush or Sutter - would be cool too. Not too expensive and they usually have Murphy Beds.

I agree with Matt on SOMA being mostly transplants, it's not very San Francisco - meaning the places are new and less charming than an old Victorian. But, truth be told, after years of living in older Victorians all across the city, a Yuppie loft has its own charm - like windows that shut, heat that works and a parking garage in your building.

As a special treat, consider signing up for the roommates mailing list on Craigslist. You'll have plenty of entertainment and an exposure to some of San Francisco's more unique elements without having to meet them in person. I used to forward some of the most entertaining ads to friends.

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I'll sign up for that. I just realized one downside of the neighborhoods with virtually no parking, even if I had a garage spot -- it would be harder to get Bay Area friends to come visit. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that people are astoundingly lazy... Perhaps I should consider one of the more "boring" spots with better street parking and walk to the livelier areas for nightlife.