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Lunges: Pick your poison - Page 6

post #76 of 190
The funny thing.....ronnie doesn't train on smith machines.
post #77 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by limping_decorum View Post
The funny thing.....ronnie doesn't train on smith machines.

No one said he must/ought to/should train on smiths.
post #78 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by beasty View Post
Please supply real life pictures as evidence.

whoa, first things first....

I have to start selling off all my 39r/l suits so I can afford all these steroids.

But don't worry 09 Mr. Olympia is in the bag.
post #79 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by beasty View Post
I dont know why that natural bodybuilder is so small in comparison to Jay. Maybe in his competition, being small is more advantageous. But since you are being such a smarty mouth, why dont you explain why this is so, without resorting to baseless slurrings and allegations of drug taking. You would find it is so easy to criticise and critique and make excuses but when it comes to making a stand, you people clam up quickly.

He's smaller for two reasons: genetics and less (or no) drugs. Get this through your impossibly thick skull: nobody is saying that Ronnie and Jay don't work hard. But they're also not natural, which is why they're so much bigger than less drugged-up guys who work just as hard. And before you mention something about BASELESS ALLEGATIONS OF DRUG-TAKING, I'm well aware that to prove this claim I'd need to go catch Ronnie taking drugs. But I think that the probability of him taking drugs is great enough that I don't feel like wasting the energy to drive over to his house and find his stash.

What exactly are we supposedly making excuses for, anyway? Not weighing 275 lbs? I don't need an excuse for that: I don't want to weigh 275 lbs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beasty View Post
I didnt say I couldnt front squat or it is too hard. I said it produces less advantages to me than a normal squat. If you want to do unnatural and painful exercises in the hope it can make you better, be my guest.

Go check that thread. You said front squats were too hard, and that you couldn't do them correctly with an unloaded bar. They do have advantages that back squats do not, but if you don't want to or can't do them, that's your business. But don't make excuses for it.
post #80 of 190
I see this "discussion" has come back to life in the last 2 pages...

Quote:
Originally Posted by smw356 View Post
The mysterious path of the Imaginaut only looks foolish before you have walked it.
post #81 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosoph View Post
He's smaller for two reasons: genetics and less (or no) drugs. Get this through your impossibly thick skull: nobody is saying that Ronnie and Jay don't work hard. But they're also not natural, which is why they're so much bigger than less drugged-up guys who work just as hard. And before you mention something about BASELESS ALLEGATIONS OF DRUG-TAKING, I'm well aware that to prove this claim I'd need to go catch Ronnie taking drugs. But I think that the probability of him taking drugs is great enough that I don't feel like wasting the energy to drive over to his house and find his stash.

What exactly are we supposedly making excuses for, anyway? Not weighing 275 lbs? I don't need an excuse for that: I don't want to weigh 275 lbs.



Go check that thread. You said front squats were too hard, and that you couldn't do them correctly with an unloaded bar. They do have advantages that back squats do not, but if you don't want to or can't do them, that's your business. But don't make excuses for it.

Please allow me to retort.

1. How is Ronnie and Jay unnatural? Do they have bionic implants?
If its so easy as taking drugs as you say, thousands of americans would be walking around the streets looking like Jay clones and USAF would strike terror the second they step on Iraq soil.

All things being equal, you cant tell me any military want some scrawny instead of muscular men (not as human shield BTW).

2. To catch Ronnie or Jay taking drugs (allegedly) is simple. Do drugs testing on them. Do you think IFBB is stupid and never drug test? These are the lightning rods of criticisms, and they are surely drug tested comprehensively. Next you will be saying they took some magic pixie dust that allows them to evade all known drug tests. Wow! First they are unnatural and now, untestable!

3. You must read selectively. I said at first it was difficult with an empty bar but subsequently I can do front squats. However due to the pain of the weight caused by the bar on my delts, I decided to skip it.

4. I note that till to date you have deliberately failed to state what is your opinion of people like Ronnie and Jay and how I have supposedly misunderstood your opinion. You have not stated your ideal bodybuilding physique or ideal either, hmm I wonder why?

Is it because you are the same kind of 'bodybuilder' as those hetero men who tell their parents they just cant find a nice girl to settle down with but have an extensive stash of gay porn and find pictures of dicks on the internet oddly attractive?
post #82 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by beasty View Post
Please allow me to retort.

1. How is Ronnie and Jay unnatural? Do they have bionic implants?
If its so easy as taking drugs as you say, thousands of americans would be walking around the streets looking like Jay clones and USAF would strike terror the second they step on Iraq soil.

All things being equal, you cant tell me any military want some scrawny instead of muscular men (not as human shield BTW).

2. To catch Ronnie or Jay taking drugs (allegedly) is simple. Do drugs testing on them. Do you think IFBB is stupid and never drug test? These are the lightning rods of criticisms, and they are surely drug tested comprehensively. Next you will be saying they took some magic pixie dust that allows them to evade all known drug tests. Wow! First they are unnatural and now, untestable!

3. You must read selectively. I said at first it was difficult with an empty bar but subsequently I can do front squats. However due to the pain of the weight caused by the bar on my delts, I decided to skip it.

4. I note that till to date you have deliberately failed to state what is your opinion of people like Ronnie and Jay and how I have supposedly misunderstood your opinion. You have not stated your ideal bodybuilding physique or ideal either, hmm I wonder why?

Is it because you are the same kind of 'bodybuilder' as those hetero men who tell their parents they just cant find a nice girl to settle down with but have an extensive stash of gay porn and find pictures of dicks on the internet oddly attractive?

Please allow me to retort to your retort:
1) By "not natural" I meant "on drugs." That's usually what it means in a bodybuilding context. Yes, anyone on the street could load up on drugs and get huge, but only if they put in the work. Some stockbroker who takes steroids and wants to get big on the weekends is not going to be as big as Ronnie because he doesn't have the time or the motivation to work as hard. Nobody is saying that bobybuilders don't work hard. The point is that many of them, because they use various drugs, are bigger than they would have been through hard work and eating alone.

Also, most militaries would not want huge soldiers. They would probably prefer lean guys with a high strength/weight ration. It's not cost-effective to feed 250-lb guys. The less excess mass soldiers are lugging around, the less they eat. In this day and age, when most combat does not take place hand-to-hand, excessively large soldiers would be a liability.

2. It's possible to avoid a positive result on a drug test even if you've been taking drugs. Jay, at least, has tested positive in the past. Just from a very quick google search: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...19/ai_82476418.

3. If it hurts, you're not doing it correctly.

4. This came up in the first thread you got involved with here. Have you forgotten already? People like Ronnie and Jay, while impressive on a bodybuilding stage, have increased their body mass to disproportionate and unaesthetic levels. When they get off the stage and put clothes on, I think they look ridiculous and a little grotesque. Their overlarge muscle mass does not provide them with any additional performance benefits that could not be achieved at a lower bodyweight. They embody an ideal which I do not hold myself.

I don't consider myself a bodybuilder. And gay porn? Finding dicks attractive? No, sorry.
post #83 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosoph View Post
Please allow me to retort to your retort:
1) By "not natural" I meant "on drugs." That's usually what it means in a bodybuilding context. Yes, anyone on the street could load up on drugs and get huge, but only if they put in the work. Some stockbroker who takes steroids and wants to get big on the weekends is not going to be as big as Ronnie because he doesn't have the time or the motivation to work as hard. Nobody is saying that bobybuilders don't work hard. The point is that many of them, because they use various drugs, are bigger than they would have been through hard work and eating alone.

Also, most militaries would not want huge soldiers. They would probably prefer lean guys with a high strength/weight ration. It's not cost-effective to feed 250-lb guys. The less excess mass soldiers are lugging around, the less they eat. In this day and age, when most combat does not take place hand-to-hand, excessively large soldiers would be a liability.

2. It's possible to avoid a positive result on a drug test even if you've been taking drugs. Jay, at least, has tested positive in the past. Just from a very quick google search: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...19/ai_82476418.

3. If it hurts, you're not doing it correctly.

4. This came up in the first thread you got involved with here. Have you forgotten already? People like Ronnie and Jay, while impressive on a bodybuilding stage, have increased their body mass to disproportionate and unaesthetic levels. When they get off the stage and put clothes on, I think they look ridiculous and a little grotesque. Their overlarge muscle mass does not provide them with any additional performance benefits that could not be achieved at a lower bodyweight. They embody an ideal which I do not hold myself.

I don't consider myself a bodybuilder. And gay porn? Finding dicks attractive? No, sorry.

WHAT?

After jawjacking for so long, you are not even a bodybuilder? And yet you dare to call Jay grotesque. Only if walk a mile in Jays' shoes (one in his many sneakers collection), sweated like them, sacrificed like them, trained through pain and injuries like them, trained through the uncertainties of no career prospects like them, then do you have the rights to criticise and critique them.

Until then, you have no right to do anything. They would appreciate if you just stand back and gawk at them in awe. If not, just move away when you see them in the gym, supermarket and let professionals do their thang,

BTW I still have not seen your ideal of bodybuilding. Now I know why. HAH!
post #84 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by beasty View Post
After jawjacking for so long, you are not even a bodybuilder? And yet you dare to call Jay grotesque. Only if walk a mile in Jays' shoes (one in his many sneakers collection), sweated like them, sacrificed like them, trained through pain and injuries like them, trained through the uncertainties of no career prospects like them, then do you have the rights to criticise and critique them.

Until then, you have no right to do anything. They would appreciate if you just stand back and gawk at them in awe. If not, just move away when you see them in the gym, supermarket and let professionals do their thang,

BTW I still have not seen your ideal of bodybuilding. Now I know why. HAH!

no right? what the fuck does that mean?

body builders have taken a set of activities that many many people use for different reasons, and taken them to a grotesque and exagerated extreme. this is like the "greatest gift" thread - the fact that you worship at the feet of some drugged up freaks doens't mean that anybody else should.
post #85 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by globetrotter View Post
no right? what the fuck does that mean?

body builders have taken a set of activities that many many people use for different reasons, and taken them to a grotesque and exagerated extreme. this is like the "greatest gift" thread - the fact that you worship at the feet of some drugged up freaks doens't mean that anybody else should.

No. They have brought it to extreme perfection. Just compare the difference between Arnold and Jay. The difference is staggering.

Grotesque and exaggerated? I dont know what you are talking about.

Also, this society has created a nation of critics. You know the saying those who cant do, teach? The new saying is those who cant do, criticise.

Now you have those who cant/dare not/too lazy to be bodybuilders who criticise instead? My God! What have our society degenerated into? I find it totally unacceptable that those who are not even bodybuilders, dare to criticise those who put so much effort into it.

What a joke! Until you have walked a mile in Jay's shoes, then you can speak against him. If not, be quiet, stand back and watch the master at work.
post #86 of 190
Extreme perfection? are you serious Beasty? I'm not sure what's perfect about being so big that you can't reach your own back to wash in the shower. Guys like jay and ronnie have an amazing work ethic and willpower, as well as being gifted genetically for thier chosen path in life. They also are bigger then is humanly possible without the aid of drugs. You have to be joking when you doubt them getting to be as big as they are without drugs, especially if you've ever been in the weight room consistently for an extended period of time doing a proper routine, while on a propper diet. I find bodybuilding to be grotesque because it is all about devoting your life to having the biggest and best shaped muscles. You need to devote yourself entirely to eating, sleeping, and lifting right. All for what? I know the sacrifices that bodybuilders have to make to compete, but to devote your entire life to looks seems much too vain for me. Not to mention all the shite they pump into thier bodies and have little idea of what harm they do in the long term, compounded by the unknown effects of combining supplements/drugs. I'd never walk a mile in Jay's shoes like you said because it would be a complete waste of my time. This rant is not so much criticizing the Ronnie's and Jay's of the world, because if thats what they want to devote themselves too, it has no effect on me. I'm more concerned about how you seem to honestly believe they just work hard to achieve such immense size. Some of the things you've said in this thread blow my mind, and I really do hope you're joking. Please tell me you're joking.
post #87 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by kever View Post
I find bodybuilding to be grotesque because it is all about devoting your life to having the biggest and best shaped muscles. You need to devote yourself entirely to eating, sleeping, and lifting right. All for what? I know the sacrifices that bodybuilders have to make to compete, but to devote your entire life to looks seems much too vain for me.

Plus, let's face it, maybe 0.5% of the population, at most, actually thinks that bodybuilders look good. Movie stars look good. Athletes often look good. Models are paid to look good. Bodybuilders... look like an anatomy lecture demonstration gone horribly wrong. That they've devoted almost every aspect of their lives to becoming a walking medical anomaly makes me respect them in the same way that I respect, say, an Olympic figure skater. I recognize that it takes tremendous hard work and dedication, as well as genetic gifts, and to that extent I think it's noteworthy and commendable... and I am still left fundamentally unmoved.

Quote:
Some of the things you've said in this thread blow my mind, and I really do hope you're joking. Please tell me you're joking.

Welcome to the world of the Imaginauts. No one jokes here. Life is too serious for that.
post #88 of 190
Huh... I always assumed that there were other aspects of weight training than bodybuilding. Thanks beasty for pointing out how fundamentally wrong that was. I can see now that I was mistaken. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go track down some powerlifters, strongmen, Oly lifters, and a whole bunch of other athletes and inform them that their goals suck and they should stop wasting their time with nonexistent training methods.
post #89 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosoph View Post
Huh... I always assumed that there were other aspects of weight training than bodybuilding. Thanks beasty for pointing out how fundamentally wrong that was. I can see now that I was mistaken. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go track down some powerlifters, strongmen, Oly lifters, and a whole bunch of other athletes and inform them that their goals suck and they should stop wasting their time with nonexistent training methods.
Don't forget to include the part about how they should kneel, should they ever find themselves in the presence of Jay, Ronnie, and the other Imaginauts who have done what they themselves are to weak to bring themselves to do. Perhaps it would be best if you carried around a picture of Jay, to hammer your point home. I find that helps.
post #90 of 190
Is he black, or is he white? He transcends all boundaries. PERFECTION!
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