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Genuine Authentic - Page 2

post #16 of 25
[quote][quote]my point was not that I begrudge Ralph Lauren for building a fashion empire built on selling WASP culture, but that he himself seems ashamed of his Jewish roots. Tom Ford sold Gucci without ever denying or trying to hide his Texas roots. Why do you consider this to be a bad thing? Granted, I understand your concerns about selling out and compromising one's integrity, but at the same time shouldn't it be up to the individual to define his own identity, including the ability to reject aspects of his background (which may or may be beyond his control) that he finds objectionable?
post #17 of 25
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but at the same time shouldn't it be up to the individual to define his own identity, including the ability to reject aspects of his background (which may or may be beyond his control) that he finds objectionable?
Some parts of your identity are given you, and while there is nothing wrong with striving to be something different, trying to hide or erase your heritage seems to me to be a disgraceful and disrespectful thing. All IMO, of course.
post #18 of 25
Understandable. I guess my position is that there are valid reasons (personally based or objective) why one might find aspects of one's background objectionable, and it's unfair to expect one to be stuck within the limits of that background, especially since it was thrust upon him beyond his control. I think it's entirely up to the individual to define himself and whether or not he wants to embrace his background of birth. Of course, motivation does come into play, in that it's much easier to sympathize with someone trying to escape past demons or other distasteful issues related to his background, as opposed to someone who just wants to be a chameleon and blend in with what's popular.
post #19 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Hamid Karzai and some Saudi princes seem completely comfortable conducting business in their native dress, as do some African dignitaries when they stop by the United Nations.
But the Chinese Premier and the Indian Prime Minister, each who head 1 billion people on the planet do not. And the vast majority of national leaders do not. Perhaps one should ask: why? And my investment bank will instantly eject me if I wear my tradititonal clothes to work tomorrow Monday morning.
post #20 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
shouldn't it be up to the individual to define his own identity, including the ability to reject aspects of his background (which may or may be beyond his control) that he finds objectionable?
I find this an interesting and philosophical point. Indeed, what if one does not like his culture or ethnic heritage? Isn't it unfair that some are born into countries/cultures/families more desirable than others? And conceivably, one should not be made to feel proud of his country/culture/ethnicity/family if one does not find anything of one's country/culture/ethnicity/family worthy of pride. (I am not refering to a specific culture here; this is merely for the sake of argument.)
post #21 of 25
Thread Starter 
By the way, the book goes into considerable detail of how Ralph Lifshitz was made made fun of because of his name when he was growing up and when he was in the army. One of the jokes he had to endure started with: "Well if you speak shitz with your mouth, then what does your ....."
post #22 of 25
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Through the world, one learns the inferiority of one's culture and the supremacy of Western culture. Why else would clothing ads worldwide, rather then being tailored to the local population, always feature same type of people. The Western/American/WASP image is the global image of success and sex appeal, not only in America but in the world.
Sounds like an old Chinese saying, that whoever conquers China becomes Chinese.  But, ignoring the flamebait, my point was not that I begrudge Ralph Lauren for building a fashion empire built on selling WASP culture, but that I despise that RL himself seems ashamed of his Jewish roots.  IMO, your parents gave you a name, and you should be proud of it.  Tom Ford sold Gucci without ever denying or trying to hide his Texas roots.  David Chu heads up Nautica.
LA Guy: Well, one could say that unlike many today, he just hasn't fetishized his own identity; one could counter, of course, that he has fetishized another. It doesn't really bother me that he hasn't stayed true to some essential notion of "Jewishness", whatever that is or might be. On the other hand, perhaps he has, in some way, done so. Kidkim2: Good point, American re-invention. It predates Franklin's Autobiography, and perhaps may be found in the earliest writings of the English colonists.
post #23 of 25
I find it hard to believe that there's nothing in a culture that one would find desireable or valid. What is your culture? Are you JJ on the askandy forum? And, with regards to WASP influence, I would argue that its hip hop that has more influence on today's culture than any lingering WASP influence. Let's look at Tommy Hilfiger. It initially tried to be WASPy, which turned out to be commercially limited. It wasn't until the hip hop culture selected this brand did all the white suburban kids start wearing it as well.
post #24 of 25
Thread Starter 
esquire: no, I am not jj in askandy. I am also 'gregory' on askandy. And I don't hate my culture. I'm just making a point. Got to separate the person from his arguments ok. Living the hip hop culture will get one no where in life (except a musician). Living the WASP culture, on the other hand.... You see my point?
post #25 of 25
The appeal of the WASPs were their insouicance, which others interpreted as confidence. Somebody with an inferiority complex will have more trobule succeding than someone who is not wearing the correct WASPy clothing. No matter how bad something looks, if you wear it with enough confidence, than you can own the look.
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