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Abs, Chest, and Arms - Page 3

post #31 of 162
2/18/08 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by venron View Post
Like some of the earlier posters, I think bodyweight exercises are a good start. I would recommend that you visit the website (turbulencetraining.com (or something like this)) that's maintained by Craig Ballantyne. You don't have to purchase anything to join, and he has posted YouTube videos that are very informative. Good Luck!

Do I get anything out of signing up other than the generic useless free pdf download?
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post #32 of 162
2/18/08 at 8:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beasty View Post
1. You referring to Mr Olympia not olympics? Since when is bodybuilding an olympic sport.

2. Of course striations are around since the start of time. But the present bodybuilders make it look so super freaky now.

3. Of course symmetry and aesthetics are a factor. Shawn Ray and Flex Wheeler did well against the size freaks in their day. I believe IFBB rules did state that these are factors to be considered in judging. Packing muscles is one of them. It just so happens the champions from Dorian to Ronnie to Jay not only have symmetry and aesthetic look, they pack mass so well.

I was, in fact, referring to the Olympics. It's a large international sports tournament attended by many of the world's top athletes. Not only do they push the limits of human performance, many of them look quite good as well.

The problem with modern bodybuilders is that their performance is not proportional to their muscle mass. They keep packing on size, but performance doesn't follow. Their additional muscle does not deliver any kind of functional or performance benefit. They are not faster or stronger than they could have been with less size.

The only people who are truly impressed by modern bodybuilders are people like you.
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post #33 of 162
2/18/08 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beasty View Post
Dude if you lift long and serious enough, you would respect all these athletes. Make no mistake about it: Jay IS an athlete and top notch athlete at that. And if you are a big enough gym rat, you would want at least a bodypart to match Jay's.

I've lifted for a while now. And I'm still not impressed. By the way, what is Jay's sport? What kind of objective criteria for performance or skill are you judging him against?

I've seen videos of Eric Cressey deadlifting 675 lbs at about 165 bodyweight and Pyrrhos Dimas C&Jing 213 kg at about the same weight. Both of those feats are impressive. I think I would feel pretty stupid if I were some big muscley monster and got outlifted by a much smaller guy. If you want to back up your appearance, you should be aiming to maximize performance at a given bodyweight.
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post #34 of 162
2/18/08 at 10:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by why View Post
Shut the hell up about genetics. Most of the argument surrounding genetics have to do with anthropometry with Olympic weightlifting. 'Muscle-building' genetics is mostly bullshit -- most people have very similar abilities when it comes to putting on muscle (and drugs even the playing field a lot). Most of the aesthetic differences are anthropometric and deal with attachment points of muscles for peaked biceps and large calves.

Genetics is not as important as a factor as you make it out to be and you sound downright stupid for even insinuating that Ronnie is some supreme human being when it comes to building muscle. Get your head of of Flex magazine.

That is untrue.

If it is, any numbnuts who lift weights and according to rumours, roid up will be a contender for Mr Olympia. But no, you always see the same faces in Olympia and the fact is its hard to get your IFBB pro card. Just look at the difference between those who have the card and the also rans.

Also, you would notice that many Olympia contestants are of Negroid origin or have Germanic/Austrian blood. Given Olympia is in USA and many of the Pro cards are from there, there should be more caucasian males qualifying since that is the majority of US population.

If its attachment, those are temporary like pecs implant. If its calves attachment, it looks like a balloon and wont change even when you flex.

Just ask any bodybuilder how hard it is to get to Ronnie's level.

Ronnie himself once told the story of how when he was in his teens, he always gets stopped in the streets by people asking if he trains. The fact is that he doesnt but looks like he does even in his youth.
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post #35 of 162
2/19/08 at 12:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosoph View Post
I was, in fact, referring to the Olympics. It's a large international sports tournament attended by many of the world's top athletes. Not only do they push the limits of human performance, many of them look quite good as well.

The problem with modern bodybuilders is that their performance is not proportional to their muscle mass. They keep packing on size, but performance doesn't follow. Their additional muscle does not deliver any kind of functional or performance benefit. They are not faster or stronger than they could have been with less size.

The only people who are truly impressed by modern bodybuilders are people like you.

1. Bodybuilding is not an olympic sport.

2. The performance aspect of modern bodybuilding are the poses and routine. This is not unlike gymnasts who perform certain routines. The size they pack is a factor. A bodybuilder who has more proportional mass will do better than one who does not. This is bodybuilder not powerlifting or strongman competition.
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post #36 of 162
2/19/08 at 12:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by beasty View Post
1. Bodybuilding is not an olympic sport.

2. The performance aspect of modern bodybuilding are the poses and routine.

Which is why its a freak show pageant not a sport.
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post #37 of 162
2/19/08 at 12:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by smw356 View Post
Which is why its a freak show pageant not a sport.

Would you classify gymnasts as freak show?
Surely you must because many of the women taking part have bodies of prepubscent girls.
What about synchronised swimming? Olympic atheletes or Esther Williams wannabes?
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post #38 of 162
2/19/08 at 1:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by beasty View Post
Would you classify gymnasts as freak show?
Surely you must because many of the women taking part have bodies of prepubscent girls.
What about synchronised swimming? Olympic atheletes or Esther Williams wannabes?

all of those require some measure of performance.
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post #39 of 162
2/19/08 at 1:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosoph View Post

So yes, you can say that they look the way they do because of genetics, but that doesn't change the fact that they've done more drugs than Keith Richards.

That is just not humanely possible ... and to his credit he's like a 100 and still performing.

Also, to Ronnies credit, isn't he a police officer in the off-season?

But the reason for the post, what is the thought on guys like Marius Pudzianowski, particularly in comparison to Body Builders?
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post #40 of 162
2/19/08 at 1:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by smw356 View Post
all of those require some measure of performance.

And bodybuilding does not?

I would have you know flexing like that takes alot of effort and a bodybuilder, not Olympia standard but still freaking big (his delts not pecs are bigger than his head and the rest of his body is proportionate) was so winded doing an exhibition flexing he was on the verge of collapse. I cant imagine the preparation and work involved in flexing by Olympia hopefuls.

Plus Olympia have the mandatory poses like gymnasts have mandatory things they have to do.

I would classify bodybuilding to be in the category of sports and many countries do have bodybuilding in international and regional competitions.
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post #41 of 162
2/19/08 at 1:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjmaiorano View Post
That is just not humanely possible ... and to his credit he's like a 100 and still performing.

Also, to Ronnies credit, isn't he a police officer in the off-season?

But the reason for the post, what is the thought on guys like Marius Pudzianowski, particularly in comparison to Body Builders?

Think when Ronnie was Olympia he quitted the force.
Not exactly sure whether he was an actual Texas cop before that or just auxiliary or reserve cop.

Bet the crooks will be petrified to see this 300 pounds man asking them did they beat their kids.
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post #42 of 162
2/19/08 at 1:47am
Homoerotica, anyone? You seem to be so far in the closet that you've reached Narnia. I thought even the T-Nation guys agreed that bodybuilders today are inordinately less aesthetic than they used to be.
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post #43 of 162
2/19/08 at 1:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosoph View Post
Homoerotica, anyone? You seem to be so far in the closet that you've reached Narnia.

I thought even the T-Nation guys agreed that bodybuilders today are inordinately less aesthetic than they used to be.

Must you turn everything into tawdry sex?

FYI I am not turned on by women pro bodybuilders like Chivesky and even the fitness olympia chicks are a bit turn off for me.

However I do give credit and respect those like Jay and Ronnie who through dedication and hardwork and sacrifice become true legends and giants in their fields.

I would put them in the same hallowed class as Tiger, Rog Fed, Levron etc etc.
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post #44 of 162
2/19/08 at 2:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosoph View Post
I thought even the T-Nation guys agreed that bodybuilders today are inordinately less aesthetic than they used to be.

Those are anachronists.

Sergio, Lee and Arnold bettered Sandow just like Jay, Ronnie and Dorian bettered Sergio and co. Are you telling me Sergio and co roided? So everybody roided?

The truth is times moved on and standards moved on.
Sergio wont even qualify for Olympia today.
Training and nutrition change.

These people also use that as an excuse because they are unwilling to sacrifice to get Jay's body.

You always see people in the gym scoffing at others for working hard and at the saying how they dont want to look like a musclehead. The truth is these people want to look like that but are too lazy to sacrifice to look like that.
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post #45 of 162
2/19/08 at 2:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by beasty View Post
You always see people in the gym scoffing at others for working hard and at the saying how they dont want to look like a musclehead. The truth is these people want to look like that but are too lazy to sacrifice to look like that.

You've got some serious projection going on there.

I can honestly say, with as close to 100% certainty that I am being fully transparent to myself as is humanly possible, that I would never, ever want to look like a bodybuilder. Even a "normal" bodybuilder, much less the crazy extremes of someone like Ronnie Coleman. I can respect how hard it is to develop that kind of body, but seriously, it's grotesque.

I do not, however, scoff at people who manage to build these (admittedly grotesque) bodies. It takes all sorts of hard work and willpower.
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