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Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread - Page 393

post #5881 of 11411
Thread Starter 
Again, I don't think the flecks are inherent to donegal because virtually every donegal book has, as pattern #1, a B&W large dot (not really a nailhead or birdseye but a distinct tweedy dot pattern) without flecking. Then pattern #2 is typically that same color but WITH the flecks.

So, to me, "donegal" has always meant tha dot pattern, in tweed.
post #5882 of 11411
I didn't say the flecks are inherent to Donegal! The opposite! You can have a tweed from Donegal without flecks that is rightfully a Donegal tweed, and you can have tweed from elsewhere that has flecks which many would call Donegal as well. So, if something is called a Donegal tweed, and it doesn't have flecks, then it's probably safe to say it is simply a tweed from Donegal. If you see a flecked tweed called Donegal, and the origin isn't stated, it could be from anywhere.

It's just that the flecks have become so iconic that nubby flecked tweed has become known as "Donegal" itself. So, now, "Donegal" can refer to two things: tweed from Donegal, or nubby, flecked tweed from anywhere. The former may or may not be flecked.
post #5883 of 11411
You guys kill me. The tweed above is Kevin and howlin handwoven from Dublin (made in. Dinegal)but most of my done gals were bought in donegal, and there was certainly no shortage of herringbones. There was also a museum of sorts that had swatches from very long ago of similar.
post #5884 of 11411
Thread Starter 
the other reason I associate that dot with Donegal is that it seems to constitute the vast majority of Dongeal books while I never see it in any other tweed books.
post #5885 of 11411
Can I get people's opinions on Oyster, Lesser, and Smith's navy hopsacks? I'm planning to order a BlazerSuit through Steed, and they sent me some swatches to consider.

My impression is that Lesser is really nice, but feels very smooth compared to the Oyster and Smith. Possibly better if this garment was only to be used as a suit. Oyster, on the other hand, has a much more visible weave, but I fear it might be too "rustic" for a true city suit. Smiths, to my eye, seems to be right in the middle. Good enough for a suit, but not so smooth that the fabric would look odd as a blazer, which is what I intend to wear this most as. Thus, I'm tempted then to use something like Smith's 3913, a 12/13oz wool.

Can anyone offer thoughts?
post #5886 of 11411
You guys are making my head hurt...again.

I tend to think of Donegal as anything with the color flecks. If it's also made in the area of Donegal then even better. Perhaps that's an Uber Donegal.
post #5887 of 11411
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

Can I get people's opinions on Oyster, Lesser, and Smith's navy hopsacks? I'm planning to order a BlazerSuit through Steed, and they sent me some swatches to consider.

My impression is that Lesser is really nice, but feels very smooth compared to the Oyster and Smith. Possibly better if this garment was only to be used as a suit. Oyster, on the other hand, has a much more visible weave, but I fear it might be too "rustic" for a true city suit. Smiths, to my eye, seems to be right in the middle. Good enough for a suit, but not so smooth that the fabric would look odd as a blazer, which is what I intend to wear this most as. Thus, I'm tempted then to use something like Smith's 3913, a 12/13oz wool.

Can anyone offer thoughts?
that is a fine summary. All three are excellent quailty. For use as a blazer, I would prefer the one with the most rusticity.
post #5888 of 11411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewfoot View Post

You guys are making my head hurt...again.

I tend to think of Donegal as anything with the color flecks. If it's also made in the area of Donegal then even better. Perhaps that's an Uber Donegal.

It's not that complicated. "Donegal" can either refer to (1) tweed from Donegal, or (2) tweed with nubby flecks. A tweed can be one, both, or neither. That comports with Manton's experience. Any nubby, flecked tweed is likely to be in a Donegal book, regardless of whether it is actually from Donegal. Yet, there may be other non-flecked tweeds in the same book, which are Donegal tweeds by nature of being from Donegal.
post #5889 of 11411
Thread Starter 
3) tweed with the characteristic dot pattern, which to me is more decisive than 1 or 2.
post #5890 of 11411
What dot pattern? I don't understand what you mean by that. I thought we were talking about the nubby flecks.
post #5891 of 11411
Thread Starter 
your blue jacket has that patter, IIRC

post #5892 of 11411
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

My understanding is that "Donegal" refers to tweed spun in the Irish region of that name, but since the plain-woven flecked pattern has become so iconic, it has become known as "Donegal" regardless of where it's from. The flecks are from the way the yarn itself is processed, so they can appear in weaves other than plain.

I think this is basically correct. I also think Donegal tweed, like Harris, originally referred to handwoven cloth, although, unlike Harris, Irish mills like Magee now offer machine woven cloth as Donegal as well. In addition,the name "Donegal" is not protected in the same manner as Harris and, therefore, cloth can be sold as Donegal by anybody regardless of place of origin, method of weaving or pattern.

I think some of the confusion comes from the fact that donegal (with a lower case "d") has come to be used as a generic term for a woollen tweed with those characteristic flecks in it and you othen see such tweed offered by some merchants as "donegal style" fabric.
post #5893 of 11411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

your blue jacket has that patter, IIRC

It definitely has nubby flecks, but the weave is plain.
post #5894 of 11411
Donegal yarn is much smaller, the weave is tighter, and the cloth is a lot thinner, less rustic.[/quote]

I do not believe that any of this description applies to the traditional handwoven Donegal (upper case "D") tweed made in Donegal, Ireland, which is made in a variety of weights, weaves and patterns. For example, I have Donegal tweed coating from K & H made from thick yarn loosely woven in a herringbone pattern. You commonly see this kind of stuff in old coats from such makers as Burberry and Aquascutum.
post #5895 of 11411
It's a plain weave, but with a warp that is dark and a lighter weft, creating the dot pattern. The flecks in the yarn do the rest.
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