Mr. Despos posted this in the NSM thread, but I think it should be part of this thread
Originally Posted by Despos
Not easy to respond about H&S. What works with them is the diversity of ranges as much as their quality but what is most important when using cloth is the application of what weight/weave is best for the individual. What is a superior cloth in one application could miss the mark for another. I seldom use any cloth under 8 ounces and seldom use plain/panama weaves. Not much demand. I like cloth with a good body to weight ratio and regardless of weight it needs body.
Much of the cloth that is hyped on SF is not favored with my clientele. I rarely use fresco and when I do most prefer the finish of Smith's Finmeresco to the Minis cloth. I hear a lot of you refer to "dry" cloth and this term applied to cloth has always been a negative term with tailors but it is sought out here.
You also need to be aware that H&S uses the same bunch name for different seasons/weights of cloth. You sometimes find a light weight and heavier weight by the same bunch name. I usually prefer the heavier and rarely use the lighter. This doesn't reflect poorly of the quality just the preference of clients.
What I would label as basic, durable cloth is Cape Horn, Snowy River and Perennial. Three different cloths but they all tailor very well. Cape Horn sheds wrinkles and has good body but a soft hand.
For odd jackets Crystal Springs and Euphoria for light weight and SherryKash, Peacock, Eclipse and Sherry Tweed are excellent. A few years ago they had a great wool, linen and silk hopsack that really mede up well Fantastic color range. All bunches contain a mix of classic patterns and some modern interpretations. One client described their sport coat cloth as "Utilitarian but not pedestrian." Meaning the colors and patterns are conventional enough, easy to wear and accessorize but you won't see the same colors and patterns wherever you go.
The Super's are what my base clients use and they tend to repeat orders from the same books. Escorial. Always impressed how the cloth handles. 8.5 ounces is the lightest I've used. 10-11 ounce is the sweet spot. Cloudy Bay 150's, 10-11 ounce, this cloth was beautiful to work with. Swan Hill 160's about 8-9 ounce. Emperor 180's, 8 ounce has incredible body and resilience. Victory 140's Suitings book and the flannel version, 10-11 ounce are one of my all time favorite cloths.
None of these Super's lack body and tailor exceptionally well.
Client gained weight and had to let out several Emperor 180's suits. The suits were a couple years old, still had a good crease. All the old stitch marks and creases came out and you couldn't tell the garments had been adjusted. That says a lot to me about the quality. Have had the same experience with the others in this list and that's why I use them.
The 11 ounce cotton is a favorite but limited in color range. The cotton hopsack wears like iron.
A few staple cloths that are no longer available is the doeskin in the Dakota range. 10 - 11 ounce. Made hundreds of trousers from this cloth. Beautiful colors and finish.
Vendon, 11 ounce hopsack. Had the most favorable response of any cloth I've used. Several clients ordered something in every color and did multiples in favorite colors. Used this for suits, sport coats and trousers. Clients would randomly comment how much they loved the cloth.
Client feed back is just as important about what cloth I use and Holland & Sherry gets singled out more than other cloths. I don't use all of their books but they have something in every range I like to use.
QUESTION: do any of you know the guy who runs Bookster (tweed-jacket.com) by any chance (his name is Peter)?
last year they used to sell a brown/olive tweed called Taransay that was stunning. I ordered enough for a vest just to guage what it looked like before commiting to a larger order, was floored by what I received. When I went to order 10 metres more for a suit and a coat, it was sold out. I emailed the owner who told me that he couldn't promise that doing another run of it was possible because it might vary from the original 'recipe' and he didn't want to take the risk that I would buy an entire run and not be happy if it was different than what I had received in the previous run.
I've still not been able to find anything as good as this cloth. It still haunts me because I want a country/weekend suit made of this that I can use as separates. The depth of color is extremely unique it captures the entire range between brown and olive unlike like any I have ever seen since. There are at least 4 different colored yarns in it (brown, rust, olive and black) and possibly 5. The picture below doesn't do it justice. Most tweed uonly two two yarn colors; ie. black and brown or tan or gray or something to that effect. This one is VERY special. It's almost 3D
I'd like to see if somehow we could get a group buy going to do another run of it. Trust me when I tell you, it would be worth pursuing and it wasn't expensive on a per yard basis.
Please PM me if you know the owner, because we might need someone with a personal relationship to persuade him to do it.
Second, it looks EXACTLY like my Scabal shetland, which is also discontinued. I don't think the color is quite as unique as you may fear.
it isn't just the color, it's the 3D effect of the weave
I want to make a country suit out of it, Manton, not a business suit (ala NOBD's herringbone country suit)
Specifically, I want to give it to Mina to make a patch pocket sport coat + matching pants to wear together on weekends or as separates
re: Scabal, do you have a number for it so I can search their catalog? it's rare to find herringbone tweeds with 4 or 5 yarns used in the weave (rather than the usual 2)
there is a 3D effect when using so many diferrent color threads in a herringbone pattern that has to be seen to be appreciated, and I don't see may weavers using that many yarns any more.
I have swatches of it I can mail to you (PM me) if you really want to compare to yours. I kid you not, it's special. When I received the 1 metre I ordered as a sample I couldn't believe how beautiful it was and tried to order 10 metres immediately but found out it was gone. Try and count how many different color yarns are used in the Scabal piece you have. If it's only two or three, try to imagine how much better it would look wth 4 or 5 spanning the range between brown, rust and olive. Big difference Edited by NorCal_1 - 1/15/13 at 1:10pm