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Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread - Page 1262

post #18916 of 19918
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

Navy hopsack.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrybrowne View Post


I'd go navy flannel. If that's too warm then Navy hopsack. If that's still too warm, then Navy fresco.

 

Thanks for the suggestions! 

Do you guys have any suggestions as to which book to look at? 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kolecho View Post


Halstead's huckaback weave jacketing 50% kid mohair/50% wool in navy or light navy. It's around 10 oz. Good for summer and you can layer up in the cooler months.

 

This sounds like something quite interesting, I'll try and look for this.

post #18917 of 19918
For flannel I'd take a look at fox's selections

http://www.themerchantfox.co.uk/cat/79/flannel

For hopsack I'd look at Smith Woolens gilt edge (plenty of other options at Harrison's)

For fresco I'd do Minnis. Other frescos are also nice, but I think Minnis would work best for a navy DB.
post #18918 of 19918
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrybrowne View Post

For flannel I'd take a look at fox's selections

http://www.themerchantfox.co.uk/cat/79/flannel

For hopsack I'd look at Smith Woolens gilt edge (plenty of other options at Harrison's)

For fresco I'd do Minnis. Other frescos are also nice, but I think Minnis would work best for a navy DB.

 

Thanks for that, I think this might just work.

post #18919 of 19918
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMarch View Post

Thanks for that, I think this might just work.

Gilt Edge bunch is very suity. Won't work well as an odd jacket. If you are after a jacket, try to get a cloth that is meant as a jacketing for better texture and surface interest.
post #18920 of 19918
A lot of those Harrisons hopsacks are a bit suity (Smiths, Lesser, Oyster, etc). Although I used Oyster for a BlazerSuit and wear the jacket sometimes as a standalone sport coat.

If you want something chunkier, look into Drapers and Caccioppoli.
post #18921 of 19918
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolecho View Post


Gilt Edge bunch is very suity. Won't work well as an odd jacket. If you are after a jacket, try to get a cloth that is meant as a jacketing for better texture and surface interest.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

A lot of those Harrisons hopsacks are a bit suity (Smiths, Lesser, Oyster, etc). Although I used Oyster for a BlazerSuit and wear the jacket sometimes as a standalone sport coat.

If you want something chunkier, look into Drapers and Caccioppoli.

 

Thanks. I haven't seen gilt edge stuff in the flesh. Though it seemed to be of a good weight.

By being suity, do you guys feel that it's the finish? 

post #18922 of 19918
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMarch View Post



Thanks. I haven't seen gilt edge stuff in the flesh. Though it seemed to be of a good weight.
By being suity, do you guys feel that it's the finish? 

Most suitings are finished very smooth. Fine for a suit, less so for an odd jacket. Fresco and flannel are also suitings but those have some surface interest.
post #18923 of 19918
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolecho View Post

Gilt Edge bunch is very suity. Won't work well as an odd jacket. If you are after a jacket, try to get a cloth that is meant as a jacketing for better texture and surface interest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

A lot of those Harrisons hopsacks are a bit suity (Smiths, Lesser, Oyster, etc). Although I used Oyster for a BlazerSuit and wear the jacket sometimes as a standalone sport coat.

If you want something chunkier, look into Drapers and Caccioppoli.

My blazer is gilt edge but a heavier weight. It works well and definitely doesn't look suity. That said, Edmorel has a nice hopsack for sale that would work too.....
post #18924 of 19918
Fox has some interesting looking hopsacks. Very blazer-ish.
Don't know how they behave in the wild.
post #18925 of 19918
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMarch View Post
 

Have got a question. 

If you guys were to have only ONE.... DB odd jacket, what fabric would you choose?

Just one. 

 

Best be something that does not wear too warm. 

I liked Vox's Summery DB here:

 

Not sure .. could be Fresco.  But navy hopsack is the more versatile choice

post #18926 of 19918

Some pretty nice / interesting suggestions here guys. 

Thanks for the input.

I think I might still go with a navy hopsack. Seems to be more versatile.

And yes, Ed's hopsack does look very nice. 

post #18927 of 19918

The VBC hopsacks are quite nice. I also second the fresco suggestion. For fresco, I would probably make a suit. That way, you can wear the coat separate when you want to. Minnis fresco, Finmeresco, and crispaire are all quite good. 

post #18928 of 19918
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomer View Post

This is an interesting discussion.

I think it is somewhat helpful to consider this question in the inverse. For example, if possible, wouldn't you always want your tailor either performing or directly overseeing each element of the process? At least for me, the answer is a resounding "yes." Now, of course, it is likely that certain tailors are better at certain tasks. And surely, I would prefer that the tailor best at buttonholes in the shop make the buttonholes on my jacket. I guess, for me, it comes down to oversight. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

I guess an example would be helpful. Let's say I hire an attorney, some big-wig at a well-known law firm. I am hiring her for her expertise. Now, I have no problem with her delegating tasks to associates, especially when delegating does not compromise the final work-product or strategy. However, I would have an issue with her delegating everything whole-sale. I have a similar thought process with respect to tailoring. For me, it seems pretty obvious that a substantial nexus between the cutter/tailor and the other persons working on the jacket would be helpful to the final product.

Another interesting thought - I feel like an "operation" like A&S and some of the other larger tailors must, of necessity, have more outsourcing. They are big operations, that span generations. Same thing with Rubinacci. There is a pretty seamless transition between Gennaro to Mariano to Luca because they perform more of a managerial and/or supervisorial role than the role of cutter/tailor. Rubinacci is plainly distinguishable from, say, Despos, Kotaro, etc. Different business model.

I personally wouldn't care, so long as the outcome is good. And I think there are people making good clothes in the outworker system.

I think there are also different issues being discussed here.

1. There's some discussion about whether tailors should be on-premise.
2. Then there's the discussion of whether the tailor and cutter should work closely together (not sure exactly what this means).
3. Then there's a discussion of whether your tailor should be present at fittings. As far as I know, most tailoring firms don't have the tailor present unless there are issues. That includes shops that use on-premise tailors.

Those all seem to be separate things.

The only thing I was saying to whippet is that, I think, results should be the end goal. IMO, he seemed to be putting the carriage in front of the horse, looking specifically for a process that he thought led to a result. I agree it's useful to have the cutter present at fittings. I'm not sure if the tailor is necessary and, at the very least, it seems like plenty of firms make good clothes without having tailors see clients.



Perhaps Whippet would be best served by Steven Hitchcock who is the youngest and last of SR tailors with own shop, to be trained both as a tailor a n d a cutter (at A& S of course) thus earning the title of 'Master Tailor' - oh I forgot, he does not want to pay the price peepwall[1].gif
bigstar[1].gif
post #18929 of 19918
Hitchcock was trained as both, and will do some of his own work. But if you want a true one-man (or one-couple) shop, even that won't do. He does have a small stable of outworkers--- one of whom also works for Huntsman!
post #18930 of 19918
Quote:
 The only thing I was saying to whippet is that, I think, results should be the end goal.

IIRC; Whippet said his best results were achieved with the tailor present. He may have specific fitting issues that were better understood by the tailor. Who knows? A lot depends on the clients fitting needs to obtain the best fit. Some clients are easier than others.

 

From all the rhetoric I spewed on about, I tried to shed light on the different process options to get to the result. Working with a pattern maker, cutter, tailor has benefits only if this fellow is competent to execute in all areas. You can look to Urban's trip to east Sicily. He got great jackets, maybe better than he would have from a big shop in Naples. I wanted to present value of using a small shop like this. 

 

Cutter/tailor can work if  systems are in place to create a harmony of these two. Think about it, cutter has the cloth for maybe an hour, tailor's work may run over 40 hours. Better results come from a harmony between the two. Garment has to be cut to accommodate clients posture/physique, jacket has to be sewn to bring the cutting to fruition. 

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