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Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread - Page 1259

post #18871 of 19896
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post
 

Anyone know if the Drapers "Royal Cashmere" book will ever be remade? (or at least some of the fabrics from a year or so back restocked)


Received new books but didn't pay attention to what books arrived.  Talking with Jodek on Tuesday and will ask

post #18872 of 19896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post


I appreciate your kind thoughts, sir, but it's hard to accept from someone with fewer than 1000 posts

And to be honest when I said it I thought you were a bespoke tailor. I've since learned that you are merely a custom tailor and I feel very differently about your work now. Everyone knows that custom isn't as good as bespoke. I saw that on a thread here.
post #18873 of 19896
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post


I appreciate your kind thoughts, sir, but it's hard to accept from someone with fewer than 1000 posts

And to be honest when I said it I thought you were a bespoke tailor. I've since learned that you are merely a custom tailor and I feel very differently about your work now. Everyone knows that custom isn't as good as bespoke. I saw that on a thread here.

Can't argue against that. That's infallible  it's officially "lowly custom tailor"

post #18874 of 19896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post

As far as getting all this at a lower price; that's a tough one.  I would rather make 5 suits a week at 6000.00 than 10 suits per week at 3000.00. Allows me to spend more time with clients and time spent on each suit. 
Know tailors who prefer the volume at lower prices and I don't want their problems this creates. I like my problems! 


What type of problems do tailors encounter at a lower price point?
post #18875 of 19896

service

post #18876 of 19896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post

service

Does this mean tailors like Ambrosi should charge more for pents?
post #18877 of 19896

Simple Definition of custom

made to fit the needs or requirements of a particular person

  • doing work that fits the needs or requirements of a particular person

  • Full Definition of custom


  •   made or performed according to personal order 

      specializing in custom work or operation <a custom tailor

     

    Bespoke

    In the 16th century, bespeak acquired another meaning -

    "to order or arrange in advance." It is from that sense that we get the

    adjective bespoke, referring to clothes and other things that are ordered

    before they are made.

     

    bespoke describes the process of ordering clothes, custom defines the

    service of providing them.

     

    Describe my suits as bench made. Meaning individual coat makers

    working at a tailor's bench.

     

    " I bespoke a bench made suit from a custom tailor"

    1.  

  •       

post #18878 of 19896
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsuperb View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post

service

Does this mean tailors like Ambrosi should charge more for pents?


I had others in mind.  He has a lot of travel overhead as do I

post #18879 of 19896
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsuperb View Post

Does this mean tailors like Ambrosi should charge more for pents?

It's not a bad idea. Start at $1100. I'd like to add the "decent service" option. I'm also interested in pants that actually fit. How much do those two additions add to the $1100 base price? There could be a menu. If you just want to post about your ambrosi pants and don't really care about anything else, you just pay your $1100. You want some more? You got it.
post #18880 of 19896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post


I had others in mind.  He has a lot of travel overhead as do I
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post

It's not a bad idea. Start at $1100. I'd like to add the "decent service" option. I'm also interested in pants that actually fit. How much do those two additions add to the $1100 base price? There could be a menu. If you just want to post about your ambrosi pants and don't really care about anything else, you just pay your $1100. You want some more? You got it.


That's kind of disappointing given that you're already dropping a large sum of money on tailored clothing. Does one truly need to spend $6000/$1100 to get what they truly asked for?
Edited by lordsuperb - 9/5/16 at 6:14am
post #18881 of 19896
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsuperb View Post


That's kind of disappointing given that you're already dropping a large some of money on tailored clothing. Does one truly need to spend $6000/$1100 to get what they truly asked for?

What's your answer? You buy bespoke clothes. Are you getting what you want for the price point your paying? If it isn't what you want do they make it right?
post #18882 of 19896
This is an interesting discussion.

I think it is somewhat helpful to consider this question in the inverse. For example, if possible, wouldn't you always want your tailor either performing or directly overseeing each element of the process? At least for me, the answer is a resounding "yes." Now, of course, it is likely that certain tailors are better at certain tasks. And surely, I would prefer that the tailor best at buttonholes in the shop make the buttonholes on my jacket. I guess, for me, it comes down to oversight.

I guess an example would be helpful. Let's say I hire an attorney, some big-wig at a well-known law firm. I am hiring her for her expertise. Now, I have no problem with her delegating tasks to associates, especially when delegating does not compromise the final work-product or strategy. However, I would have an issue with her delegating everything whole-sale. I have a similar thought process with respect to tailoring. For me, it seems pretty obvious that a substantial nexus between the cutter/tailor and the other persons working on the jacket would be helpful to the final product.

Another interesting thought - I feel like an "operation" like A&S and some of the other larger tailors must, of necessity, have more outsourcing. They are big operations, that span generations. Same thing with Rubinacci. There is a pretty seamless transition between Gennaro to Mariano to Luca because they perform more of a managerial and/or supervisorial role than the role of cutter/tailor. Rubinacci is plainly distinguishable from, say, Despos, Kotaro, etc. Different business model.
post #18883 of 19896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomer View Post

This is an interesting discussion.

I think it is somewhat helpful to consider this question in the inverse. For example, if possible, wouldn't you always want your tailor either performing or directly overseeing each element of the process? At least for me, the answer is a resounding "yes." Now, of course, it is likely that certain tailors are better at certain tasks. And surely, I would prefer that the tailor best at buttonholes in the shop make the buttonholes on my jacket. I guess, for me, it comes down to oversight. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

I guess an example would be helpful. Let's say I hire an attorney, some big-wig at a well-known law firm. I am hiring her for her expertise. Now, I have no problem with her delegating tasks to associates, especially when delegating does not compromise the final work-product or strategy. However, I would have an issue with her delegating everything whole-sale. I have a similar thought process with respect to tailoring. For me, it seems pretty obvious that a substantial nexus between the cutter/tailor and the other persons working on the jacket would be helpful to the final product.

Another interesting thought - I feel like an "operation" like A&S and some of the other larger tailors must, of necessity, have more outsourcing. They are big operations, that span generations. Same thing with Rubinacci. There is a pretty seamless transition between Gennaro to Mariano to Luca because they perform more of a managerial and/or supervisorial role than the role of cutter/tailor. Rubinacci is plainly distinguishable from, say, Despos, Kotaro, etc. Different business model.

I personally wouldn't care, so long as the outcome is good. And I think there are people making good clothes in the outworker system.

I think there are also different issues being discussed here.

1. There's some discussion about whether tailors should be on-premise.
2. Then there's the discussion of whether the tailor and cutter should work closely together (not sure exactly what this means).
3. Then there's a discussion of whether your tailor should be present at fittings. As far as I know, most tailoring firms don't have the tailor present unless there are issues. That includes shops that use on-premise tailors.

Those all seem to be separate things.

The only thing I was saying to whippet is that, I think, results should be the end goal. IMO, he seemed to be putting the carriage in front of the horse, looking specifically for a process that he thought led to a result. I agree it's useful to have the cutter present at fittings. I'm not sure if the tailor is necessary and, at the very least, it seems like plenty of firms make good clothes without having tailors see clients.
post #18884 of 19896

To clarify, I fit in all of the above. Having mentioned what I do, will attempt to explain how I do it. Main workroom  is in Dallas and store/workroom is in Chicago and 3 tailors work off site. Ten people in total, including me.  Some tailors do try-ons, some make the jacket after the try-on. Some only work on trousers. Some are finishers. Nothing gets handed off to anyone that I wasn't the last one to prep the work. I do all the iron work myself because it is more precise than explaining and easier when handing work over to be done. I secure all the iron work with stay lining. All any tailor does when they do  finish work is sew. There is nothing left to trim, cut or change. If something needs more attention, it gets done when I am in the workroom. This is the best way I have found, for me, to maintain consistency of a relatively inconsistent process. For this reason I feel fortunate to know both sides, cutting and  sewing. 

To die worker; the advantage of knowing both sides and pattern making is when I measure a client and see the fitting issues I know already what type of sewing techniques will be required and can take measurements and make the pattern with all this in mind. Sizing up a client from three points of view, as pattern maker, fitter and tailor. Creates a continuity throughout the process.  

This is my approach and the way I like to work. Right or wrong it's the way I do it. 

post #18885 of 19896
FWIW, I have never worked with a cutter who can't sew. I am especially suspicious of young tailors who can't sew much posing as 'tailors', gaining Instafame for being social media savvy.
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