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Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread - Page 1256

post #18826 of 19918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Concordia View Post

Where have you found that done, and what were the specific advantages?

I'm not Whippet, but in my experience having the cutter measure and fit generally leads to a much better experience. My guess is that the reasons for this are that there is information gleaned from looking at a person, how they move and how they carry themselves, that isn't captured in a set of measurements but that can still be reflected by a good cutter during the cutting and fitting process. I also think that there is something to be said for pride of authorship. There are lots of ways to get a great suit, but for me having the cutter do the measuring and fitting is worth whatever hassle or extra cost might be involved, and that's based on a broad range of experiences. The rest of the making - the sewing and handwork - strike as something better sent to lower cost workers.
post #18827 of 19918

Anyone know if the Drapers "Royal Cashmere" book will ever be remade? (or at least some of the fabrics from a year or so back restocked)

post #18828 of 19918
Quote:
Originally Posted by whippet View Post


It does happen but I agree it's hard. You just have to look for it. For a proper bespoke i think that's essential. The cutter and the tailor should know how you move and your body aside from measurements


I think that's nonsense.

post #18829 of 19918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy57 View Post


I think that's nonsense.
But a pleasant fantasy.
post #18830 of 19918
Which cutter-tailor spins his own yarn?
post #18831 of 19918
Mine has his own sheep.
post #18832 of 19918
Mine is an actual sheep tho.
post #18833 of 19918
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post

I'm not Whippet, but in my experience having the cutter measure and fit generally leads to a much better experience. My guess is that the reasons for this are that there is information gleaned from looking at a person, how they move and how they carry themselves, that isn't captured in a set of measurements but that can still be reflected by a good cutter during the cutting and fitting process. I also think that there is something to be said for pride of authorship. There are lots of ways to get a great suit, but for me having the cutter do the measuring and fitting is worth whatever hassle or extra cost might be involved, and that's based on a broad range of experiences. The rest of the making - the sewing and handwork - strike as something better sent to lower cost workers.

Agreed and well said. That's how it should be done when the words "bespoke" or " handmade" are named. On the handwork it depends. For example an handmade stitched armhole should be done by somebody who knows what he is doing
post #18834 of 19918
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanComposition View Post

Mine has his own sheep.

Is that Steed or Napolisumisura? I lose track of who all of the styleforum sheeple are fetishizing from day to day.
post #18835 of 19918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy57 View Post


I think that's nonsense.

Maybe you should leave your rtw world and come into bespoke. Then it will make sense for you
post #18836 of 19918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy57 View Post


I think that's nonsense.

Agree.

My experience of Savile Row (two firms for about thirty years with a ten or fifteen year gap in the middle) is that you meet the cutter who measures you, asks questions, checks you out discreetly and cuts the cloth.

The cloth, lining, canvas, padding, buttons, etc..., are then bundled and sent to the coatmaker, trouser maker, waistcoat maker, who may all, or not, work in workshops on the premises. A few weeks later, you will have a baste fitting after which the garment is taken apart, redone as a forward, then as a fin bar fin (finished bar finishing), then finished. There are specialist finishers (buttonhole makers…). So four try-ons at least for the first order. Afterwards, depending on the cutter’s confidence, there may be fewer fittings, sometimes more, depending on how precise a fit is desired (Military tailoring being more precise than “soft” tailoring).

The larger firms have their own makers, in a workshop on the premises or nearby. Even then, they send work out when busy. Small operations do not and send everything to outworkers. Those same outworkers probably also work for larger houses, at least occasionally.
Cutters usually have at least some experience sewing but they are not expected to make the garments. No SR house cutter does it, as far as I know. The cutter obviously does quality control and sends back mistakes, if any, to the relevant worker to be redone. The system works well and I do not see that a cutter doing all the work would improve the result, besides being economically unviable.

In passing, both Messrs Malcolm Plews and Stuart Lamprell work out of Meyer & Mortimer’s on Sackville Street. The principals at Meyer & Mortimer are owner / manager / cutters so have an obvious interest in producing quality work as would, I suppose, all SR firms.

I apologize for being so long-winded!
post #18837 of 19918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Concordia View Post

Where have you found that done, and what were the specific advantages?

I did but he is in another country and doesn't travel to London
post #18838 of 19918
Quote:
Originally Posted by whippet View Post

I did but he is in another country and doesn't travel to London

There are a lot of variables that go into making a jacket, but if you were to map out the sort of tailoring shops where the cutting and tailoring are done by the same person, and the shops where there's a division of labor, I would argue you'd see better coats coming out of the second (on average).

Not that one method is necessarily better than the other. I just think it's a bit strange to prioritize process over result.

The idea that one method is "proper" bespoke and the other isn't seems silly to me. Not even rooted in any historical tradition, let alone based on results.
post #18839 of 19918
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post

Is that Steed or Napolisumisura? I lose track of who all of the styleforum sheeple are fetishizing from day to day.
Palmisciano and Arrigo, who incidentally cut, sew, and finish themselves.
post #18840 of 19918
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

There are a lot of variables that go into making a jacket, but if you were to map out the sort of tailoring shops where the cutting and tailoring are done by the same person, and the shops where there's a division of labor, I would argue you'd see better coats coming out of the second (on average).

Not that one method is necessarily better than the other. I just think it's a bit strange to prioritize process over result.

The idea that one method is "proper" bespoke and the other isn't seems silly to me. Not even rooted in any historical tradition, let alone based on results.

Thanks. In my quote I said "as much as possible". I am aware that they are 2 different person and I have no problem with that in principle. But they should work in tandem and they both should be present at the fitting(ideally).

I prioritize process because an excellent process and value chain makes an excellent result
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