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Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread - Page 1104

post #16546 of 21252
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprout2 View Post
 

I have a Master's degree in Sartorial Information Studies from ITT Technical Institute

 

http://sleevehead.blogspot.com/2013/11/fabric-quality-call-to-visualize-and.html

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsuperb View Post

I believe these fit the requirement!

 

I don't get the reference.

 

 

 

For those seeking to commission a hobo coat, I just saved you and your tailor some time:

https://www.carson-street.com/rare-weaves/shop/clothing/product/7520/therwrepurposedcoat

Only $8000

post #16547 of 21252
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Edited by dieworkwear - 1/27/16 at 4:59pm
post #16548 of 21252
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

You're missing the point of that garment.
I have been following this brand on Instagram.
I just never bothered to find out what the prices were.


I get it, but it is very expensive for re-purposed clothing.
post #16549 of 21252
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Edited by dieworkwear - 1/27/16 at 4:59pm
post #16550 of 21252

I say this with no hint of mockery, but what on fucking earth is the point of it?

 

As someone who went to a chichi LA private school, I have a good amount of experience with people paying a ton to look like a bum, but this coat would take the cake in my book. 

post #16551 of 21252
It's also a bit of a social experiment, I guess. They put it out there and see if anyone bites. I'm quite sure that these are on consignment and that CS wouldn't be so adventurous as to actually buy those garments and have so much invested in them. It's a low risk proposition for CS and gets them tons of traffic from people saying look at this it's crazy! (Like above)
post #16552 of 21252
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Edited by dieworkwear - 1/27/16 at 4:59pm
post #16553 of 21252

Look, I'm glad there's a market for cash-flush artistes to buy discarded kimono rags that nobody actually wants.  A kind of neo-colonialism like scooping up Navajo rugs and other discarded bric-a-brac that we don't understand. I'm glad that Mr. CEO of Visvim can charge you $8000 for umbrellas. But "these rags tell stories!" These rags "are heirlooms!" Unless your grew up with your mom resewing your indigo chore coat over and over again, what would possess you to own or need such an article? Why is buying overpriced rags from a boutique in SoHo, New York authentic?

 

There are museums where you can go look at quilts; there are archives of textiles and antique houses that deal in these things for people in the trade. However, some people are so obsessed with the idea of wearing clothing that every interaction around it has to involve putting it on themselves -- the self as canvas. It's narcissism and consumerism masquerading as appreciation of culture. Stores are replacing museums. Why study this when you can own it! You can't appreciate things unless you purchase them!

 

It's embarrassing and tacky to wear $8000 kimono rags and pretend to be an itinerant rice farmer. A real rice farmer certainly won't spend time gazing at shredded hobo coats in a slickly-designed boutique. He will be saving up for a real suit, one that looks nice. It's called "nostalgie de la boue." Rich people fetishizing the rustic. It shall continue for time immemorial, but these days it has gone from "dabbling" to buying cartloads of vintage crap from other countries and acting like you're supposed to feel good about it. In terms of rusticity, most people stop at tweed and jeans because, you know, dressing as a hobo is fucking idiotic on any number of levels.

 

Nigel Cabourn, the whole nine yards --- "no, no, this is repro, this is revival, this is mining history" -- no, it's a marketing angle like any other. The $4,000 anorak is no more authentic than one from WalMart, just because a British guy mails it to you with a 20 page booklet of black and white photographs. Like any good brand with a business acumen, Nigel & co. are in every single department store in Japan, pumping out their overpriced sweatshirts with the rest of them. And people gladly spring for it. Nigel Cabourn is like Nike in Japan.

 

Rare Weaves...Let's put it to the smell test:
 

Quote:

My family and I have always been collectors of textiles and fine art. My own tastes veer off into the more esoteric  – outsider art, folk art, tribal art – the irony of things mistaken for seeming ‘primitive’ or out of step with the industrialized world. I got my degree as an english and philosophy double major, but you could say I was always interested in clothes. And especially the world of vintage. I would start to collect vintage clothing, some of which I had no intention of wearing just to admire a small detail or two – an unintended fleck of paint or wear, the finishing on a hem, an intriguingly warped jacket lining from age – I started to run out of space in the house I grew up in pretty quickly. 

 

 

This is after his previous foray into music:

 

Quote:

[his] debut EP is titled, Songs In the Key of Zoloft and features his unique mixture of anxious neurotic pop and meta-folk.

 

 

Check, check, and check -- wealthy dilettante hipster alert.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for wealthy dilettantism. It produces great things. But add the hipster component and you get people mining trash to sell trash to people who think trash is gold. That's fine, too -- the emperor's new clothes, whatever.  The thing is, when you have absurd excess in high-end couture fashion, people get it (the exorbitant price tag is part of the admission price) "Ah, that's just the kids having a lark again." But with the self-justifying boutique mentality of "everything obscure is authentic," you have hucksters plying total nonsense to consumers who, disilllusioned with the "mainstream" but too naive to see a brickbat of marketing coming to hit them in the face, actually believe the price tag is validated by the story and somatic experience of the brand. But the story is free -- it comes out of thin air. Doesn't cost them a nickel.

 

Just track the trends. After people tired in the last decade of exhuming the zombies of Americana -- reimported through Japanese inflections of Americana, then back into the US, natch -- the buzzword was "craft," now it's the detritus of other (implicitly more "primitive" or "exotic") cultures. I think that the modern consumer is so lacking in authentic experiences in his life (whatever those are -- presumably something other than shopping or reading about shopping online) that he is utterly uncritical of things sold to him as "authentic." If everyone would cut the facade, it would be so much simpler: "I'm bored, I got my liberal arts degree, and I thought it would be cool to buy old, dilapidated pieces of fabric, because I think fabric is totally cool, and stitch them together to create anti-clothes and enjoy texture, patina, and age! Neat, huh?" That would be totally fine. It's the unnecessary art school manifesto, the unrefined idea masquerading as truth.

 

I'm not necessarily saying it's intentional. I don't think they set out to hoodwink.

The kids like to make shit that looks cool. Endpoint. We, the viewing public, like to look at this that looks cool. Endpoint.

But schooled on a steady diet of nebulous storytelling and marketing, the young artiste feels that this is not enough. Cue buzzwords: wabi sabi, shibui (truly ridiculous, truly misguided fetishism), storytelling, connections, the past, dialogue, etc.

 

Go to any art school and you have people producing legitimately nice looking and interesting art, then feeling like that in and of itself is not enough, and typing up a 20 page manifesto on their Smith-Corona typewriter they got on Etsy, the one just like Hunter S. Thompson used to use, and presenting that. It is uniformly bad.

 

Reading the fine print, it seems the designer of these clothes is interested in outsider art and folk art. Sounds good so far. Those are great. We also both like the musician Terry Riley.

 

Where this diverges is that he could create the giant freaky trashbag burlap homonculus and call it a day.  Maybe I am out of touch, but I struggle to see how outsider art involves creating lookbooks, stylized photo shoots, using social media, and getting a clothing line up and running. Hey, what do I know -- maybe that's the only way to engage with an audience today. Maybe brands are built from the ground up rather than presented at the Royal Academy in Antwerp.

 

There are many unanswered questions here, but we have to look past 1) the marketing 2) the art school 101 "statement of purpose" and 3) the bullshit and ask ourselves what we're looking at here. Ask, in the words of Negativland, Why is this Commercial?

 

I like BLESS because, so far as I know, they are unabashed about just making conceptual ideas that are unwearable but intriguing to look at or think about, sans the stupid romantic bullshit. Thank god for that Teutonic approach.

post #16554 of 21252
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post


It's a referencing ideas that people find beautiful -- wabi sabi, upcycling, shibui, etc...It's about stories and values; it's not just about the object. Values about thriftiness, recycling, letting things age as they will and letting go, finding beauty in decay, etc..

 

To me, this wording is symptomatic of the way people interface with these things. "It's about X." "It references Y."

Seldom is it clarified how the work is about X or how it references Y. Just a series of reminiscences, feelings, half-remembered associations, Proustian madeleines. Eventually, everyone is recycling the same terms (buzzwords), as though this explains anything -- or as though it even needs to be explained. "This references Dust Bowl farmers, Neo Romanticism, and urban decay. How, I don't know, but those are sandwiched in there." I think this is intellectually dishonest and has to do with the way culture has turned into soundbites Just hit all of the right reference points and you're golden. Don't scrutinize the fact that everyone is mentioning the same reference points. There used to be a time when people made aesthetic art free of this priming for the viewer, but as the quality has slid totally downhill, people add more and more terminology to prop up what are totally threadbare (no pun intended) ideas.

 

Also, it is disingenuous to assume that "everyone on this side of the board" does not have experience with art, casual clothing, or countless other things.

post #16555 of 21252

I would like to read a good counterpoint to that if someone can offer one, as I find sprout2's rant to articulate my feelings quite well, but I'm willing to accept there might just be things I don't understand.

 

I have to add though I do think some of his stuff looks really cool. The one linked really doesn't though, but maybe it's just the photograph/model.


Edited by Isolation - 1/27/16 at 6:08pm
post #16556 of 21252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isolation View Post
 

I would like to read a good counterpoint to that if someone can offer one, as I find sprout2's rant to articulate my feelings quite well, but I'm willing to accept there might just be things I don't understand.

 

Rebuttal: Hunter S. Thompson used Olympia and IBM typewriters.

 

The comment about consignment is very interesting and does add a different dimension to things-- it does take the risk off of the vendor.

post #16557 of 21252
LOL at @dieworkwear always erasing his posts if he doesn't win the argument.
post #16558 of 21252
^brutal
post #16559 of 21252
Quote:
Originally Posted by EliodA View Post

LOL at @dieworkwear always erasing his posts if he doesn't win the argument.


It is quite a maddening habit, i would say and has been done a few times now.

 

I get that the rigmarole of  a robust exchange of views on the internet is taxing and 'winning the internet' for the day is a mug's game an essentially nugatory but why engage in the first place - only to cravenly hit the reset button?

post #16560 of 21252
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTRC View Post


It is quite a maddening habit, i would say and has been done a few times now.

I get that the rigmarole of  a robust exchange of views on the internet is taxing and 'winning the internet' for the day is a mug's game an essentially nugatory but why engage in the first place - only to cravenly hit the reset button?

I don't really want to argue with people on this side of the board. Sorry for engaging it in the first place.
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