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Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread - Page 1092

post #16366 of 19905
Yeah - he screwed my pants up. Multiple times. Had to get my money back. I totally get that sometimes he gets it right and makes pants that turn our really well, but he also does the opposite. And not infrequently. That is no secret at this point.
post #16367 of 19905
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsuperb View Post


So you were at some point a savile row customer? What exactly do you consider a decent suit. I was just there this past weekend. The suits may not be your taste but they looked quite nice. If they were in my price range I would've definitely bought a suit from Maurice Sedwell.

 

 

Me client of any Savile? Only if I could time travel to the 50´s and will do pleased. After that no thanks. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post

Giant thread drift going on above but an interesting one. Sartodinapoli lacks nuance, and he isn't right, but there is a hint of truth to what he says. I've been a customer on the row for 10 years now with various houses and I would describe the work as...uneven. You can get some great stuff, but you can some garbage. Some houses stand behind their work and redo it until it's right, but others don't. Furthermore, it's incestuous. I left kilgour to get away from a cutter and moved to huntsman. That cutter from kilgour that I tried to get away from is now at huntsman. The cutter I liked at huntsman returned to Davies, where he started. Others that I knew are now at Richard Anderson. Who knows where they will all be next. Somewhere on the row I suppose.

On the other hand, to point to Napoli as the bastion of great tailoring strikes me as a weak argument. One only has to look at the Ambrosi thread to see the disasters produced by the greatest Neapolitan trouser maker (and I'm referring to fit issues. Don't even get me started on the customer service).

i think the French are in a league of their own. It's not just that the work is impeccable, but they really care. They aren't just phoning it in and you won't see Cifo or camps logging on to the web to call their customers morons. They are too busy producing great garments. And making sure that the customer is happy. The garments are amazing.

Curiously Richard Anderson, Cifonelli and Camps de Luca are after the Madrid “tailors”, the worst I have even seen.   In fact I have only seen poorly fitted, awfully cutted and overall horrible and even worse looking than a mediocre fitting 800e Boss rtw, this is for real.

 

I have a friend who was invited to a “tailor” meeting and he scaped after Anderson was talking bs that only made my friend laugh loud after Anderson was talking as he was the ultimate tailor but keeping notice of his own suit was pretty undecent. (this friend was not me) but let me know, I wonder how such mediocre tailor get paid over 6000 euros for something than in Naples will get a full slap on his face if he asked more than 500 and specially if fitted as badly as he does, this is for real.

 

http://www.cash-is-cool.com/opinion/20/interview_with_savile_row_tailor_richard_anderson

 

 

This person is unable to do even a proper tie knot or wear a decent shirt! I told you, twisted sleeves, the shouder seam is way off  but keep your eyes, the pretentious is wearing cocktail cuffs to show off  (as some bloggers do) ey I know about clothes, since I am wearing an exotic thing you have never seen before, but  contrary to this posses, some people can see all the bs around as repeating, twisted sleeves, poor body out of his size and the shoulder seams way off, this reminds me again the Madrid pretentious “tailors” that only serve to fullfill the walls of the Naples schools of tailoring as badspoke example to teach the pupils what a poor garment looks( for real).

 

etc, and he believes he is a real tailor and an elegant person while is pretentious joke as reading Hugo crapomet or Simon´s blog.

 

I can´t believe this is for real.

 

In fact this Anderson is unable to do a proper trouser hem (all the fits I have seen have too long trousers with creases over the shoe) and dresses poorly, of the others, they made me sick, specially all the bloggers who shill them and got awful undecent suits all the time, have some pics stored there on my “ sartorial crimes” file, will look for them, absolutely defective and poorly made garments, but usually is what happens with this untailors who believe are rockstars.

 

Taken from his webpage, I laughed a lot after reading this and then watching his bespoke looks like a 29euros Zara rtw, for real;

 

Richard Anderson Ltd is dedicated to producing the finest handcrafted British (I wonder how would look the worse, if this are the best) products for its clients. The company is living up to the vision held by its founders: to draw on the tradition and craftsmanship of Savile Row to create suits of life-long quality for modern men and women.

 

Even the sleeves do not fall properly on the manekin, makes me shame and laugh, but worse are those who pay 6000e for this bespoke to rtw look, OMG!

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post

^examples please? In dollars, huntsman is priced significantly higher than Cifo. It isn't close. And neither charge as much for trousers as Ambrosi through the armoury in New York. So I'm not sure where you get your info but would love to hear examples.

 

Don´t get offended please, not my intention, but why are always this blogrockstars taken seriously as tailors? For me are only divas on the real sense and meaning of divas. Lady gagas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsuperb View Post

Any love for American tailors?

 

Jaja, do not know any modern one, or the ones I see do not catch my eye, but you all know I love the ones behind all the classic films and  only know  the name of who made the North by Northwest suit, the most famous suit ever  (and I forgot his name at this time):embar:. But would like to know who is behind those poor suits of the actual president, as well as his poorly fitted “shirts”.


Edited by SartodiNapoli - 1/20/16 at 9:32pm
post #16368 of 19905
I mean guys... Don't get into extremes, surely most tailors will have made terrible / excellent garments in their lifetime. No one is born to be a prefect coatmaker / cutter / trousermaker.

However, I am persuade that sometimes Savile Row garments are outsourced to below standard coatmakers / trousermakers just to keep the business profit pool running.

Also, SR businesses in general should have a tighter quality control, rather than just hoping to pass their inferior suits to clueless customer.

Sadly, not only myself have not experienced enough Napoli or Italian tailors, but the small number of examples I have seen do not strike me as very refined and clean garments either.

I guess at the end of the day, beside money-issue, keeping a positive relationship and spirit is the most important of all.

p.s. Re:@SartodiNapoli, please enlighten me on true Napoli tailoring and feel free to hit me with pm.
post #16369 of 19905
Oh ffs guys
post #16370 of 19905

I have to admit the RealTalk™ is refreshing and the unstinting refusal to worship craven celebrity tailor idols is ("divas," in his words) shows real chutzpah. The mythologizing of Naples is a bridge too far, but keep the real talk coming.

post #16371 of 19905
@SartodiNapoli the famous suit from North by North West was made by Kilgour, French & Stanbury of Savile Row. Copies were made by Beverly Hills tailor Quintino.
post #16372 of 19905
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprout2 View Post

I have to admit the RealTalk™ is refreshing and the unstinting refusal to worship craven celebrity tailor idols is ("divas," in his words) shows real chutzpah. The mythologizing of Naples is a bridge too far, but keep the real talk coming.

Some little bird told me Liverano makes some of the shittiest pants in the industry. shog[1].gif
post #16373 of 19905

The last coupla pages of this thread most certainly aren't about unfunded liabilities, but they've been damn entertaining.

 

Keep it up guys. I want all the dirt.

post #16374 of 19905
Quote:
Originally Posted by EliodA View Post

@SartodiNapoli the famous suit from North by North West was made by Kilgour, French & Stanbury of Savile Row. Copies were made by Beverly Hills tailor Quintino.

 

That's true yes, but SartodiNapoli had made it quite clear that he finds Savile Row tailoring in the 1950s to be of a reputable standard. 

Lol.

post #16375 of 19905

I heard Liverano makes the worst meatball subs, honestly they branched out too much

post #16376 of 19905
The handwork of the "Milanese Tailor" brought in by the guys in Hong Kong are not very impressive either.

CdL handwork tidy at all? But their low collar cut really bugs me.
post #16377 of 19905
So what does this all mean, how does a simple man like me go about finding a tailor?
post #16378 of 19905
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsuperb View Post

So what does this all mean, how does a simple man like me go about finding a tailor?

Ah. Well that is easy. First and foremost bespoke tailoring is a stylistic choice. When Sartoridinapoli writes in this thread (and all the other threads where he makes the same claim) that English, French and other non-neapolitan tailors are untalented hacks passing off 20 euro garments with sleeves that don't even fit the mannequin (wait, what?) for thousands of euros on unsuspecting rubes, what he really means is "I like the Neapolitan style. I don't like other styles." That is fine. It is both easy for the rest of us to understand (probably doesn't even take as many words as he uses), and impossible to argue with.

If you agree with him, then Naples, and one of the tailors that Sartori approves of, is a good place to start. If, however, you are looking for something different, then start somewhere different. England, France, USA: all possible choices. There are others as well. Look at pictures of different tailors and when you find a picture where you suddenly say "I want to look like that!" then you have your tailor. Keep in mind that you won't look like a different body type, and the tailor can't change your face. I mean the"I want to look like that!" as a stylistic reaction. [Note: some of the other people in the world may not like your choice. They may think it is bad for a variety of reasons. Some of those reasons will be really constructive. Others won't. This thread is about cloth, so I can't tell you here how to wade through the various responses.]

Once you've selected your tailor you should make an appointment. And that appointment, you should introduce yourself, exchange pleasantries, and get ready to make an order. You can do a little work beforehand on that. But before you make that order, you should ask this question: "what happens if something goes wrong and I'm not happy with the final product?". The answer to that question should be something along the lines of "I will either fix it to your satisfaction or refund your money." It doesn't have to be those exact words, but the concepts of either (1) or (2) refund, with "fix" hopefully thrown in, are crucial.

You are now good to proceed. Let me know who you select and if there is any further insight I can offer. Sartoridinapoli - you can take it from here.
post #16379 of 19905
Quote:
Originally Posted by patliean1 View Post

Silly question, but are the majority of gentlemen here commissioning their fabric directly with their tailors? 

My local tailor has a solid selection of fabrics that are "built in" to his pricing structure but I imagine asking him to source some of the fabrics I see in here isn't worth his trouble.

I don't think you should take 'the majority here' as being representative or a good model if you are just starting out on the bespoke journey. At least your first 6 (imo) suits should be made in conservative 'basic' cloths supplied by your tailor. Supplying your own cloth (known as CMT on Savile Row, or 'cut make and trim') should only be considered/necessary once you have the foundations of a decent suit collection and have developed a good relationship with your tailor.
post #16380 of 19905
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprout2 View Post
 

I have to admit the RealTalk™ is refreshing and the unstinting refusal to worship craven celebrity tailor idols is ("divas," in his words) shows real chutzpah. The mythologizing of Naples is a bridge too far, but keep the real talk coming.

 

 

You are using the same meaning as I do, “celebrity tailors”, aka divas, never good and proper tailors.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EliodA View Post

@SartodiNapoli the famous suit from North by North West was made by Kilgour, French & Stanbury of Savile Row. Copies were made by Beverly Hills tailor Quintino.

 

Thanks, I barely remembered a post about on this forum from several years ago but as I was saying, on the 50s almost all tailors everywhere were good, why? because they came from deep disciplined schools, where let me tell you, no one of this lady gagas some of you have mithyfied would pass a single exam, and this is for real, 99% of the fits and suits I see from them are deeply defective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMarch View Post
 

 

That's true yes, but SartodiNapoli had made it quite clear that he finds Savile Row tailoring in the 1950s to be of a reputable standard. 

Lol.

 

I do, but I do not understand your post. Why are you laughing? Let me know, I am curious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post


Ah. Well that is easy. First and foremost bespoke tailoring is a stylistic choice. When Sartoridinapoli writes in this thread (and all the other threads where he makes the same claim) that English, French and other non-neapolitan tailors are untalented hacks passing off 20 euro garments with sleeves that don't even fit the mannequin (wait, what?) for thousands of euros on unsuspecting rubes, what he really means is "I like the Neapolitan style. I don't like other styles." That is fine. It is both easy for the rest of us to understand (probably doesn't even take as many words as he uses), and impossible to argue with.

If you agree with him, then Naples, and one of the tailors that Sartori approves of, is a good place to start. If, however, you are looking for something different, then start somewhere different. England, France, USA: all possible choices. There are others as well. Look at pictures of different tailors and when you find a picture where you suddenly say "I want to look like that!" then you have your tailor. Keep in mind that you won't look like a different body type, and the tailor can't change your face. I mean the"I want to look like that!" as a stylistic reaction. [Note: some of the other people in the world may not like your choice. They may think it is bad for a variety of reasons. Some of those reasons will be really constructive. Others won't. This thread is about cloth, so I can't tell you here how to wade through the various responses.]

Once you've selected your tailor you should make an appointment. And that appointment, you should introduce yourself, exchange pleasantries, and get ready to make an order. You can do a little work beforehand on that. But before you make that order, you should ask this question: "what happens if something goes wrong and I'm not happy with the final product?". The answer to that question should be something along the lines of "I will either fix it to your satisfaction or refund your money." It doesn't have to be those exact words, but the concepts of either (1) or (2) refund, with "fix" hopefully thrown in, are crucial.

You are now good to proceed. Let me know who you select and if there is any further insight I can offer. Sartoridinapoli - you can take it from here.

 

 

I will explain again, is not that I am a hooligan of the Neapolitan tailoring, is simply that most of the examples some of the posters have mythified are plenty of fit defects, because are rookies playing the role of tailor (Richard Anderson per example) who just had the luck of being on the right time on the right place, he won´t achieve the role of master tailor on the good SR decades ago with the quality he delivers today, simply as that.

 

Naples is yet good (mainly, not incluiding lady gagas as Chiaia Napoli, Orazio, and similar internet shilled phenomenon whose clientele got any clue about classic style, (let me tell you those do not sell a single garment to Neapolitan neighbourghs)  are just pittiesque fashionistas who want a disguise=

 

As I was telling, Naples is yet good, not because I love the Neapolitan style, that sure I love, as well as I love other styles well realiced as classic cinema, some Asian tailoring, some South American tailoring etc because the garments are clean and lacks of defects, on the contrary 99% of French, Madrid and Savile is defective tailoring and a parody of past decades.

 

 Naples is yet good because the owners are on their late age and comes from deep disciplined schools, so they are very severe about delivering ill suits.

See what happens when divas get fame and start delivering absolute ill (names mentioned by others, me as well have expossed fake tailors as Orazio Luciano who sold me a random size and fused babspoke jacket where even the stripes are crooked on the sleeves, because he wanted to save 5 cms of fabric, so he ruins a jacket to save 5 cms of fabric.) Yes, I was a blogger myself, I only did a single post until I realiced it was a fraud and I apologice for it. 

 

See what happens when divas start showing off golden chain ridiculous nouveau riches watches, doing selfies on Porsches all the time or even getting tattooed on their arms motives relationed to this world. You know the rest...

 

Naples might start being a sink boat as Savile is today juston a few years when the old owners who do the best quality in the world( independent on the aesthetics of the style/cut) when they start passing away by their age, and greedy newcomers as the habitual Gagas start driving the Titanic. 

 

 

 

Tailoring is about discipline and education, I see any discipline and any education on most of those self called tailors from Madrid, Savile or France saying themselves they are the best in the world. I see any discipline and less education on Pitti, but well, Pitti in not about tailoring.

 

I have never heard this by any Neapolitan tailor incluiding my grandmaster who is considered the best alive, or the rest of tailors who are the best in the world today, same as the owners of the best shirt factories, on the contrary, he encourages all the pupils who came peackocked to school to be humild, to never scam any foreign client, to always have the same prices for everyone (You know some people ask random prices calculated on the image he gets on how much can he get from you, example Chiaia Napoli asking 4500 and 450 for suit and shirt for American and Asian tourist, more than the most expensive ones who are decades and decades around)

 

My grandmaster :teach: teached me a lot of humildty, as I was a fancy businesman myself, deluxe building constructor,before got scammed by banksters and psychopaths (hence my “obssesion" for scammers-psychopats), always was going class with my suits and polished shoes like if I was entering to Wall Street as well as the charachter and irony and big mouth you all know from me but as I was telling, I learn a lot about humildty and other human related things other tailoring. Remember Naples is one of the echonomically poorest city of the old Europe, but for my is the richest on human souls.

 

As I was telling, Naples is good today as Savile was when Naples was average, because their quality standard is at lightyears from the rest.  And if Korea or whoever per example starts doing a better quality, they will be the next quality standard, is not a Napoli tiffosi-hooligan thing. I critic all the frauds I see as you all know.

 

Example American cars in the 50s, compare a Cadillac Eldorado of the 50s, I think is the best car of his time, with air conditioned, superpowerful fast engines for such a heavything, electric windows, compare it with a similar European car of it´s time, there is no comparation possible. Now compare the best European car with the best American, you can have laughs. Now see a Cadillac today, as my dad says, is junk and a parody of what was.

 

Savile as Cadillac is living out of past glory and people as my exposeds are doing a fortune just based on fake facts and pure marketing. 

 

No one would buy the actual Cadillac if priced as the Mercedes S600 or Maserati Quattroporte actual because everybody knows is way inferior, on the contrary people are paying triple for a lousy, poorly made Savile than a top Neapolitan one. 

 

Anderson, and the French ones won´t sell a single suit on Naples, and less at those prices. They abuse the fact got no “better” local rivals, or they were better with marketing (aka shilling and allegedly bribing bloggers, because let me know, this people were totally unknown a few years ago and had not those mad prices as well)

 

Now some examples, about good quality, as I always say, is that for every 100 poor examples I see, there is only one good thing, so sadly I got tons of bad examples and a few of good ones, not my fault friends.

 

I really like this image, worst millions, see as the French Gagas and most of SR and ALL the Madrid ones commit this bad fit crimes, specially ALL the Madrid untailors do the pull around the main buttons.

 

Even Kissinger who is behind this three ex Spanish Prime ministers, an habitually dressed on SR has poor suits, even Nixon on this early pic has a poor suit, I suspect is a several sizes bigger rtw or borrowed from other person, as this can´t be bespoke, specially on the golden years.

 

Note the X pull on the center prime minister, one of the trademarks of the Madrid tailoring, this seems Jaime Gallo, one who selfsays he is the best needle in the world, 3000 euros for this undecent job, note the others from other Madrid tailors, same x pull and even proper sleeves do have.

 

 

Now a minister on Madrid “tailoring”, this undecent dish rag must be Langa or similar, I wonder how a minister himself is happy to be scammed with such badspoke.

 

 

 

 

Now the Royals, the young Prince( now the King) with a Gallo awful defective X pulled with bad trouser, his father on a Larrainzar( another who selfsays he beats Savile but is bankrupted since he is unable to hook any client at this time, I am glad Spaniards are awake of this lady Gogo, note the absolutely horrid DB with absolutely poor trousers (db on tassel loafers btw, lol)

 

Note as well the infant lady, also she who might be the next Queen, with X pulled and poor twisted sleeves jacket.  

 

 

 

 

Now this French bad jacket, I distorted his face because he is member here and I do not have anything against him, btw he writes (technically clueless and totally wrong) articles on Hugo Crapomet shill blog.  I hope he learns a bit and improves his taste, the member, not Hugo, as that will be a miracle.

 

 

This is Camps de Luca usual undecent badspoke, see the lapels are ruffled? This is due to bad sewing, a poor job. This can be seen as well on cheap fused jackets, due to a poor fusing job ( Zara-low quality suits but al least are priced around 50 euros, not circa 6000 as this absolute trash)

 

Note, this could be also by bad pressing or stored on too humid place, but my personal opinion is poor sewing job. 

 

See as well out of pitch twisted sleeves, shoulder divots( as well explained on the attached sketch) and X pull on the main button, the overall look is a chinese bazar 30 euros fused poor suit, but for the  habitual bloggers who know nothing but profanating the classical style, the classical meaning of class and promoting this gagas for a bit of free cash, who gives me and the tailoring industry, the biggest shame possible. 

 

Note, at least the trouser is passable, not as on Madrid untailoring.

 

 

 

 

 

Now bloggers and Paris, another lady gaga, Gaganelli.

 

My God, who would pay who knows maybe 4000-6000 for this absolute ill fitting Dolce Gabanna inspired thing? Note, I am not sure if this is his new rtw line or bespoke, anyway...

 

I distorted the face because this blogger who “features” (I would prefer to use the word starting by s) all the time my exposed ones is member here and I don´t want to do polemics or personal attacks, just expossing (bad taste) and badspoke as well as poor quality/price ratio.

 

 

Again more X pull on the main button; badspoke, poorly done garment (the rules are the rules and I didn´t invented, tailoring has centuries behind) Not criticising the bad taste of such an ugly garment that parodies the pignata breast Neapolitan pocket as well as patch parodied weird patch pockets, on what is a horrid lisergic mix between a Neapolitan Summer sport coat with a  late 70s mid 80s  The Ramones like LEVI´s jeans jacket on what looks heavy wool, but again that is the (bad) taste of this blogger  as each client has his own taste and are personal features of each one, but at least should be flawless done, here is poorly fitted. Also diagonal pull, wrinkles on his right breast, this is not tolerable.

 

AppleMark

 

See the new ill fitting, totally cloned from Milanese brands Gaganelli, warning, expossure might cause nausea,vomits,diarrea.

 

http://nowfashion.com/cifonelli-menswear-fall-winter-2015-paris-12070

 

For those who just got a good meal and didn´t dare to click to that monsters parade, ( you did well my friends)

 

Here I go, how can be respected a diva who tries to enter into rtw/fashion mixing a roped late 70´s shoulder with ultrafashion football player Messi´s DolceGucci Gabanna lapels and look. 

 

Again Gaganelli, is obvious this people only wants champaigne and flash, as Frank warned Montana on Scarface; Not real tailors centered on their work, as I always say, hystrionics. How can I respect people who is disrespecting the tailoring industry?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now good news( it was about time after the prior crimes,hope you are yet here and not on the bathroom vomiting):smarmy:, the only good example I got stored since time ago as this do not come often, South American bespoke, this comes from a school in a country as Colombia, Mexico or Peru, I laugh loud of the irony as a country with no famous or hyped tradition on tailoring does a clean good job while the almighty England now does the worse suits around.

 

Congrats to the lady on the pic, and note, I think even is fused, so the lesson here is a low price fussed (lower quality) from a country with any sartorial hyped tradition looks 100 times better than a canvassed (higher quality) 6000e jacket from the almighty France and England.  Honestly, to laugh for a weekend, specially of bloggers and so called “experts” who dare writing books as Crapomet, Simon and so bloggers.

 

See the clean body and sleeves and beautiful ( Non Neapolitan of course but a bit inspired on the body) cut

 

 

 

If she was on Savile or Paris, she would do a fortune, sadly I am pretty sure this honest humble tailor maiden gets maybe 200-300e a month., What Anderson or the French blogrockstars lady gogos spent on a Hermes mediocre made tie or similar just to show off. ;)

:teach: 


Edited by SartodiNapoli - 1/21/16 at 1:38pm
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