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Ebay Experiences - Seller ratings - Page 28

post #406 of 659
As long as he wrote it before his signature, he absolutely can do it. If he doesn't understand what he's agreeing to, the offer is defective, plain and simple. If he makes it clear that he doesn't understand, or the seller should have known that he didn't understand, then the seller, who has to deal fairly with him, has a duty not to purport to "accept" the defective offer. This is all common sense.
post #407 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clench Million View Post

But you're wrong about that for two reasons, first because eBay lets you get your fees back if the transaction was not completed, and second, because it would have cost the seller nothing to "decline" the defective offer. He loses nothing and only loses the opportunity for wrongful gain.


a) Only final value fees, not the insertion fees.

b) You are assuming he saw that offer instead of just accepting from seeing hte original number without the added on stipulation.

ExACTly.

On point (a.), let me preemptively add the following. If this discussion revives, someone'll bring up the inaccuracy "he can relist and get his money back!" Uhhh, no. In that scenario, only the listing fee gets refunded. Photo packs, bolds, anything like that, still end up being paid out-of-pocket by the seller. If it's a seller like me, who sells relatively small numbers of unique items and is willing to spend a little more to raise his average selling prices and sell-throughs - that seller gets screwed by a flaky bidder, or a bidder like Charley who refuses to learn the rules and play by them.

On point (b.), I'll give Charley the grudging concession that Tarmac should've read his offer completely. However, Charley had a responsibility to learn the rules and play by them. His (and Ataturk's) rebuttals are a joke and an insult to everyone else's collective intelligence. I'll play softball with you and a bunch of other guys, with the caveat that I get six strikes before I'm out instead of three. Same mentality. Part of the problem here, though, is eBay's ongoing war on its own sellers. Their mentality for at least the last year or 2 (some would say, a lot longer) is to coddle buyers, let them get away with outrageous claims and behavior that would get them laughed or thrown out of a "real" retail establishment, and make sellers guilty until proven innocent. [In over 600 selling transactions, my one negative came from an idiot from Italy who paid for ground mail shipping, got ground shipping, thought she was entitled to instant gratification, and filed a PayPal claim as soon as she could. Since I shipped ground, I had no way to prove I'd shipped. It was a small-dollar transaction, but it's the principle. Thanks to this buyer (trucciola4, for any interested eBay sellers here), I now ship Priority Mail (which can be tracked through the Customs form serial number, or a delivery confirmation number in the US) exclusively.] Bottom line, I wish I had faith that Charley's nonsense won't be rewarded by eBay. However, eBay's treatment of its buyers and sellers encourages his behavior, and their track record provides a good chance he'll go unpunished. Tarmac, you're lucky you got to give him negative feedback. Under the new system, he could ding you, and you'd have no recourse, and I'd have no way of knowing to beware of him. I'm actually pulling my items off eBay until I can decide whether I want to live by the new rules.
post #408 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post
As long as he wrote it before his signature, he absolutely can do it.

If he doesn't understand what he's agreeing to, the offer is defective, plain and simple. If he makes it clear that he doesn't understand, or the seller should have known that he didn't understand, then the seller, who has to deal fairly with him, has a duty not to purport to "accept" the defective offer.

This is all common sense.

What fantasy world do you live in? If you don't understand what you're agreeing to, and you're an otherwise mentally-competent adult, DON'T AGREE TO IT. Otherwise, live with the consequences of your refusal to do due diligence.

Like Tarmac, I've given breaks to buyers when I could've stood on the rules. I've refunded and taken back items when buyers didn't pay attention to measurements and found they didn't fit. But I'm not going to let myself get screwed by someone who thinks the rules don't apply to him. If you won't play by the rules, don't play - and don't complain when others hold you to them. I genuinely enjoy selling better clothing on eBay, and I enjoy making people happy, but I'm not there to lose money through the laziness and fecklessness of others.
post #409 of 659
That is complete and total nonsense, because if someone obviously doesn't understand the terms, and in fact indicates that he does not accept them, then there's no offer at all.

The mere fact that some automated intermediary like eBay lets you purport to accept the "offer" is irrelevant, and it's no excuse for not dealing with the person fairly. Neither is their attitude.

A seller is not doing the buyer a favor by "letting him out" of such deals. If anything, the seller should apologize for accepting the "offer" without reading it.
post #410 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post
That is complete and total nonsense, because if someone obviously doesn't understand the terms, and in fact indicates that he does not accept them, then there's no offer at all.

The mere fact that some automated intermediary like eBay lets you purport to accept the "offer" is irrelevant, and it's no excuse for not dealing with the person fairly. Neither is their attitude.

A seller is not doing the buyer a favor by "letting him out" of such deals. If anything, the seller should apologize for accepting the "offer" without reading it.

The problem with what passes for your logic is that I, the seller, am not clairvoyant. I have no way of knowing what you, the buyer, do or do not understand. When you click the little button on the eBay interface confirming your bid, you're telling everyone that yes, you DO understand and accept the terms eBay has set for you to bid, as well as well as any specific terms of the seller (i.e., shipping costs; item sold as-is; etc.) As a seller, it's incumbent upon me to understand the terms of doing business on eBay. As a buyer, it's incumbent on you to understand the terms of buying on eBay.

When you click that little button, you're entering into a legally (and morally) binding contract. Unlike your and Charley's fantasy assumptions, that contract is legally enforceable in a U.S. court of law.

As I said above, Tarmac should've more carefully read Charley's additional conditions. I've made this mistake once or twice in terms of shipping to an unconfirmed address not entered in PP or eBay. As Charley's additional terms contradicted eBay's and Tarmac's terms for the auction, if it were ME, I would've refused the bid. However, this does not excuse Charley for entering into an agreement he didn't take the time to understand the terms of, then refuse to complete it, then take on a sanctimonious attitude.

"Fairness" cuts both ways. Your concept of fairness is one where the seller must accept all liability and responsibility, and the buyer is free to accept none.

Sorry if I'm a little exercised on this one, but I know how hard I work to make people happy as a seller, and I suspect Tarmac probably does the same. We work hard enough for honest, responsible customers without catering to irresponsible people with entitlement mentalities.
post #411 of 659
Anyone ever deal with bob.jerry before? Are his products authentic?

If you have, please PM me so that I don't miss your reply in this topic! Thx.
post #412 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Harris View Post
Informing you that they will file a non paying bidder report is not blackmail. It is the proper response when you refuse to live up to your offer. ...

Thank you A Harris for your defense for a crooked eBay seler. This what Ebay had to say in their email:

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to your concern about the seller
refusing to honor your agreement.

Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention. Your report will help
make the eBay Community safer for everyone.



Quote:
Originally Posted by A Harris View Post
You continue to paint the situation as a seller holding you to a retracted offer and invoicing you an inflated price. However, in actuality it is you who refused to live up to the terms of your offer, and who is trying to hold the seller to a lower price that is not permitted according to ebay policy. "Shipping is not negotiable". Period. End of story. .

Period. end of Story. from AHarris.
Except that is not the real end of story.
I really did not care about the retracted offer. I would have readily paid the amount that I had Offered =$126 delivered. This Price Jacker invoiced me for a higher amount. That is what someone would expect from an eBay Crook.


Quote:
Originally Posted by A Harris View Post
By not knowing how best offer works prior to submitting your offer, you messed up. The seller has already recieved an undeserved negative and a lot of stress/headache through no fault of their own. Please stop calling them "worm", "shady", "crooked", "real little problem", "crooked", and accusing them of blackmail. Better yet, delete your posts, because they are extremely unfair to the seller and possibly a legal issue for you should they pursue it....

Perhaps it is you who is lacking knowledge of how the Best Offer system works.
I will post again what eBay sent me regarding this Best Offer:

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to your concern about the seller
refusing to honor your agreement.

Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention. Your report will help
make the eBay Community safer for everyone.


Do You have to read that ... how many times . . . to understand that the offer I made the seller was acceptable for the eBay system?


A
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Harris View Post
s a final note, I really hope this is not true. We haven't even heard from the seller, yet by your own testimony and a simple reading of the Best Offer FAQ it is obvious that Ebay should be removing the negative feedback from the sellers record and giving you an unpaid item strike. Hopefully for the sake of the seller he hasn't been assigned a complete knucklehead to review the case.


Anyways, I am done with this But it might be worth considering that the unanimous agreement of several people that have no stake in the case could mean something...

Why in the absolute heck would you wish that I was not contacted by someone at eBay? Certainly it was true. Just as everything else I have written here is true and factual about theis crooked eBayprice jacker. For some reason you have decided to abandon reason and defend a fellow eBay seller who is a crook. You need to review you principles. Or, maybe, you shoull tell us what you consider a reasonable percentage Price Jack for a seller to add on to a Best Offer Delivered Price? This seller was going for about 15%. What do you add and get away with it - 20%?

I've very much benefited from some of your shoe evaluations. Now that I recognize that you will become irrational over $25, I will reconsider my evaluations of your previous posts. Put some paste on them and sell'em.
post #413 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Harris View Post
Sorry, but you are totally in the wrong here. You really should apologize, pay up, and delete your accusations in this thread.

This is the eBay response:


Thank you for writing eBay in regard to your concern about the seller
refusing to honor your agreement.
Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention. Your report will help
make the eBay Community safer for everyone.

Charley, we're concerned about violations on eBay, and we've thoroughly
investigated your report regarding "jacques-worn". Please be assured
that we've taken appropriate action in accordance with our site
policies. Our actions may include issuing a warning, temporary
suspension, indefinite suspension, or terminating the membership.



AhHaris, Please write the apology that is necessary.
post #414 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post
It is an easy case. As I said before-- an offer is what it is. If it didn't comply with eBay's rules, that's, well, that's for eBay to worry about.

It's analogous to someone handing you a form contract and your scratching out a paragraph before signing it. Would it matter if the first paragraph said, "you can't change any of the terms of this contract?" No...


First:
I did not change any eBay Terms. The terms do not apply to Best Offers since the Buyer can Specify Terms. However, everyone should note that there are many seller listings that state in long paragraphs that they have their own terms so that the idea of changing eBay terms is jsut fine. Sellers claim to do it all of the time.

Second:
I did not in any way try to alter the seller's claimed shipping costs. IF the invoice had been made out as $17 shipping, $109 shoes, I would have paid it. My Best Offer was for $126 Deliverd Amount. The little crook tried to invoice me for a total of $143. My effort to withdraw was not to get out of the Offer, it was to get the seller to make an imediate decision. It only took them 15 minutes to try to accept it and try to jack the price. Don't deal with crooked price jackers. That is why I posted the notice of the crook on SF.

I would have quickly sent the PayPal amount of $126. Except that I was invoiced by the Crook for a Price Jacked amount of $143. Followed up with a blackmailing email that I would be reported as a Non Paying Bidder to eBay if I did not comply with the Price Jack. If the Crook had simply written that they had not understood the bid, that would have been OK. I would have no claim as I had told them to disregard it.

As to the Non Paying Bidder Claim, this is what eBay notified me about it:
Thank you for contacting eBay concerning the Unpaid Item Strike you received.

After reviewing all of the information provided about Allen-Edmonds Suede
Wingtip Custom Boot Alden 9 NEW (#170211706799) the Unpaid Item strike has been removed from your account.



I'll be glad to thank you AHarris when you recognize that there is more to the story than you will write about.
post #415 of 659
Charley, you need to learn the difference between a boilerplate email from ebay which does not mean in ANY way that they agree with your claim, and an actual decision on the complaint. Tarmac, what was ebay's decision in the end?
Quote:
I've very much benefited from some of your shoe evaluations. Now that I recognize that you will become irrational over $25, I will reconsider my acceptance of your previous posts as being without bias.
Knock yourself out
post #416 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley View Post
(to A Harris)

I've very much benefited from some of your shoe evaluations. Now that I recognize that you will become irrational over $25, I will reconsider my acceptance of your previous posts as being without bias.

Easy, mate.

post #417 of 659
Regardless of who's right or wrong in this, it's clear that both Charley and Ataturk are immensely annoying, and mildly retarded.
post #418 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmac View Post
<Snip>
There is no way for me to adjust the price if I accept your offer. Ebay takes your price and it adds my shipping. This is easy math, I apologize that I can't accomodate nor comprehend your complex algorithm used to figure out your actual price of "take this number, times by the pi over 3 and add the GDP of Luxembourg in Pesos to the total and you have my actual offer" I don't have time for your idiotic abacus.

Well explained. Thank You.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmac View Post
You are supremely annoying.

Anyway, this has already been presented, investigated and case closed by Ebay. Take your lumps and your negative feedback like a man. This is what feedback is for. I personally make it a case to warn other sellers of people like you. My personal stance..

You were supremely annoyed? All you had to do was send out the invoice for the Best Offer amount. That was too much trouble, evidently. An Annoyance.

I'm not too concerned about the negative feedback. I've received a total of three. All three were "retaliation" negative feedbacks - as is yours. That seems to be typical of eBay sellers to leave a negative feedback when a buyer describes the seller screwup or ripoff to others using the eBay feedback system. The purpose of this thread is to give buyers additional information on those sellers.
post #419 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley View Post
Well explained. Thank You.




You were supremely annoyed? All you had to do was send out the invoice for the Best Offer amount. That was too much trouble, evidently. An Annoyance.

I'm not too concerned about the negative feedback. I've received a total of three. All three were "retaliation" negative feedbacks - as is yours. That seems to be typical of eBay sellers to leave a negative feedback when a buyer describes the seller screwup or ripoff to others using the eBay feedback system. The purpose of this thread is to give buyers additional information on those sellers.

I'm confused - you already got the refund, it's pretty clear that you sent out a confusing best offer in violation of ebay policy, and arguably in the form of a contract with contradictory terms. It's pretty clear you jumped the gun, got nasty despite of your contribution to the mistake, went on a neg-feedback rampage rather than settling this thing in a responsible manner (I noticed that Tarmac waited over a week before retaliating - a sign of a cool head compared to you) and generally act like you're in the right despite of a fairly substantial majority opinion that you are in the wrong. What exactly do you want now?
post #420 of 659
Charley's quoting of the ebay auto-response as proof that his position is correct is truly the funniest thing I've read all week. Styleforum Gold.
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