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Ebay Experiences - Seller ratings - Page 26

post #376 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley View Post
I was serious about buying the item. I was expecting either an Acceptance or Decline message. After a full day - 26 hours - I figured out that the seller was simply sitting on it hoping for better. That was not the intent of my Best Offer, to provide them with an extended time fallback sale.

Three very senior members have explained this to you already, but I'll try one more time: According to ebay policy and the actual mechanism of the best offer feature, when you submit an offer you start a 48 hour clock. The seller can, if they so choose, accept your offer any time within the 48 hours, binding you to the offer price. If the seller wants to wait until the very last minute to see if there are any better offers, they are within their rights. Sending a message saying you retract the offer means precisely nothing, nada, zilch. You are still bound to the offer should the seller choose to accept.






Quote:
Well, No I still don't believe that I am in the wrong. You have neglected to include any effect for the inclusion of Additional Terms. If I had NOT included Additional Terms, then the Best Offer would, IMHO and seemingly yours too, result in the transaction being handled like a regular Bid or Buy It Now. That would mean that I agreed to whatever shipping cost and was described in the listing, plus the Best Offer amount. Which is exactly what the phrase you quote says.

However, with the inclusion of Additional Terms, the shipping costs could be anything. I did not specify a shipping cost. I did not negotiate a shipping cost. I specified, using the Additional Terms feature provided by eBay, that the Best Offer amount was to include whatever the shipping costs were. The seller was and is well aware of what the Best Offer was, and what the Additional Terms were. All they had to do was to Decline it. That seller was intentionally devious and knowingly attempted to jack up the price. Then further followed that up with attempted blackmail.

The policy I quoted is obviously referring to additional terms. How else can the buyer "choose to include shipping in their offer price" other than writing it into the additional terms?? The purpose of this policy is also obvious if you give it a little thought. If you are allowed to include shipping cost in the offer via an additional terms write-in, the seller then has to pay a final value fee on the shipping cost as well, and this is NOT fair to the seller. Like NoVAguy said, if you had just done the math and entered the correct number there would have been no problem.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley View Post

However, this snip is lifted from an email from eBay:

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to your concern about the seller refusing to honor your agreement.

Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention. Your report will help
make the eBay Community safer for everyone.

Charley, we're concerned about violations on eBay, and we've thoroughly
investigated your report regarding "jacques-worn". Please be assured
that we've taken appropriate action in accordance with our site
policies. Our actions may include issuing a warning, temporary
suspension, indefinite suspension, or terminating the membership.


Somewhat boiler plate. However it sure does not indicate to me that I owe that seller anything. It does not indicate that I violated any "site policies." We'll see how it turns out in a few more days.

Boiler plate is exactly the term. That response means nothing, believe me. And I hope you have more correspondence than that from ebay, because you posted:

Quote:
It is not completely resolved yet, but seems to be swinging toward a seller reprimand of some sort. Evidently eBay considers the action the seller took as "fee avoidance." I'm not sure why that would apply but I'm not an eBay seller.


Also, is this the "blackmail" you speak of??

Quote:
Seller then threatens to file a Non Paying Bidder report. What the heck. The seller did not accept the Best Offer that I had made, did try to increase the offer after I had withdrawn it, and now will report me as Non Paying? Why would anyone make a threat like that?

OK. So now the seller Has filed the Non Paying Bidder report. So I get some eBay alert about a possible "strike."
post #377 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Harris View Post
Three very senior members have explained this to you already, but I'll try one more time: According to ebay policy and the actual mechanism of the best offer feature, when you submit an offer you start a 48 hour clock. The seller can, if they so choose, accept your offer any time within the 48 hours, binding you to the offer price. If the seller wants to wait until the very last minute to see if there are any better offers, they are within their rights. Sending a message saying you retract the offer means precisely nothing, nada, zilch. You are still bound to the offer should the seller choose to accept.

I believe that the seller would have the 48 hours as you report. However, I believe that I should have included a shorter time limit in the Additional Terms. That would have been a better method. However, what is being overlooked is that the seller is out nothing when I attempted to withdraw the offer. In that case, there are no increased eBay fees to worry about that I have caused them to incur. I would not find it a good practice to try to compel someone to purchase something that they had decided they did not want. Additionally, I believe the seller advertises that returns are accepted - but for store credit. That is not too bad, but why go through it with trying to push an item on a buyer? The purpose of trying to force a sale is . . . ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by A Harris View Post
The policy I quoted is obviously referring to additional terms. How else can the buyer "choose to include shipping in their offer price" other than writing it into the additional terms?? The purpose of this policy is also obvious if you give it a little thought. If you are allowed to include shipping cost in the offer via an additional terms write-in, the seller then has to pay a final value fee on the shipping cost as well, and this is NOT fair to the seller. Like NoVAguy said, if you had just done the math and entered the correct number there would have been no problem.

I do understand that eBay charges fees. I expect that any eBay seller would be mindful of those costs as well as the cost of the items being sold. To the extent that the fee payable to eBay may have gone up $1 because of the Best Offer method I used, the seller can figure that out (unless they are math challenged), and either Accept or Decline the Best Offer as I presented it. I had no intention of ripping anyone off. If the seller does not like the Best Offer - Decline it. They don't have to give me a reason or explain any calculations they went through to reach a decision. Could it be more simple? Multiply, add, subtract, Decline or Accept at Seller's discretion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Harris View Post
Boiler plate is exactly the term. That response means nothing, believe me. And I hope you have more correspondence than that from ebay . . . .

Oh sure, there is more correspondence with eBay. But the one I pasted sure does not indicate that I should pay the higner invoiced price for an amount greater than the Best Offer as I proposed it. Or do you read that differently?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Harris View Post
Also, is this the "blackmail" you speak of??

Sure, that is it. I read all the time that sellers compalin that Buyer XXX threatened to "ruin their eBay reputation" and "blackmailed" them with negative feedback. So, does that apply to "blackmailing" sellers as well? The point is that the seller made that as the first response to my complaint about the price increase above the Best Offer Amount for a delivered item. Nothing like "sorry, I misunderstood the offer" or anything else along that line. It was all just "Pay my invoice or else . . . ." I doubt that it will really tear me up too badly. Still a bit aggravating though. I expect that the "strike" will be removed from the account in another day or two. I've never received one before so not really familiar with how they are considered and reporeted by eBay.
post #378 of 659
from http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/best-offer.html


Shipping costs
If the seller has specified shipping costs for the item,

shipping is not negotiable. If, however, the seller has requested that the buyer contact the seller regarding shipping costs, you may offer the seller a price for the item that includes shipping costs.

Next time, just do what everybody else does and include an offer that takes into consideration the shipping cost.

fwiw - most of my push-back is due to you unfairly calling certain sellers "crooks" when you are made most, if not all, of the screwups and didn't bother to learn the rules of the game.
post #379 of 659
To my honest surprise I find myself agreeing a bit with Charley here. Yes, he fucked up, but it was clearly an honest mistake. I do agree with him that an honest seller would cancel the bid or refund it in some way....unless the seller, due to ebay policies, is forced to pay some sort of fee now (his insertion fee or a final value fee or whatever), even in a refund situation. I suspect htat is the case, if so then Charley should ask for a refund minus the fees the seller owes.
post #380 of 659
^ Did you see the feedback he left and the holier-than-thou attitude he took throughout the process? Nevermind he apparently knew next to nothing about eBay policies.
post #381 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley View Post
I believe that the seller would have the 48 hours as you report. However, I believe that I should have included a shorter time limit in the Additional Terms. That would have been a better method. However, what is being overlooked is that the seller is out nothing when I attempted to withdraw the offer. In that case, there are no increased eBay fees to worry about that I have caused them to incur. I would not find it a good practice to try to compel someone to purchase something that they had decided they did not want. Additionally, I believe the seller advertises that returns are accepted - but for store credit. That is not too bad, but why go through it with trying to push an item on a buyer? The purpose of trying to force a sale is . . . ?

OY! How dense can you be not to understand the basic principle here? You cannot include a shorter time limit in the additional terms. If you are not prepared to let your offer sit for 48hrs, then don't make one! Sellers are not necessarily waiting for offers to come in to respond immediately. 48hrs is not too long and it's not like they will shop your offer around to other buyers for $10. Do you think this is like a real estate offer? I feel sorry for the sellers that have to deal with you.
post #382 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by whacked View Post
^ Did you see the feedback he left and the holier-than-thou attitude he took throughout the process? Nevermind he apparently knew next to nothing about eBay policies.

No, I haven't really read through the thread. Looking at it now, I take it back. Dude is on a crazy high horse about something that was probably a bit of an honest mistake on both ends.
post #383 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVaguy View Post
from http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/best-offer.html


Shipping costs
If the seller has specified shipping costs for the item,

shipping is not negotiable. If, however, the seller has requested that the buyer contact the seller regarding shipping costs, you may offer the seller a price for the item that includes shipping costs.

Next time, just do what everybody else does and include an offer that takes into consideration the shipping cost.

fwiw - most of my push-back is due to you unfairly calling certain sellers "crooks" when you are made most, if not all, of the screwups and didn't bother to learn the rules of the game.

I've already spent more time exchanging emails with the seller than they warranted. They obviously knew that the Best Offer Amount was for a Delivered Price. They intentionally invoiced for an amount greater than my Best Offer amount.

Could it possibly have been a seller's mistake in not reading the Additional Terms. I don't believe it was, however, if that was the case, all the seller had to do was to ask out of the deal as they may not want to sell and deliver the item for that amount. No problem with that on my end as I'd already told them to not consider the offer any longer - I wanted to withdraw it anyway. Everyone would be happy. That was not the seller's response. I was informed in the first message from them that I could pay the jacked up amount, or else . . . ?

So, in your dealings on eBay, how much over your Best Offer amounts do you usually pay without complaining about it? It seems from reading the responses that the eBay regulars don't find an extra 15% anything out of the ordinary. I'm a bit surprised. Also surprising that Buyer's Additional Terms are regarded as meaningless and seller should just ignore them. I have generally been darned happy with buying some items on eBay, maybe I've just been pretty lucky.

As an add on here, some might find it interesting to note that I just received a phone call from someone at eBay. Nice of them to do that. Fellow mentioned that he was working in the President's Office. Maybe Monday for a final resolution.
post #384 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clench Million View Post
No, I haven't really read through the thread. Looking at it now, I take it back. Dude is on a crazy high horse about something that was probably a bit of an honest mistake on both ends.

If the seller had wanted to agree that there was an "honest mistake" and did not want to deliver the item for the Best Offer Amount, that would have been OK with me. All they had to do was to write "Sorry, I cannot sell them for that amount." The problem is that the seller did not ever take that approach. The Very First response was that I was required to pay the inflated invoice or get reported for a Non Paying Bidder strike. So, exactly how high do you believe the horse is?
post #385 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by EL72 View Post
OY! How dense can you be not to understand the basic principle here? You cannot include a shorter time limit in the additional terms. If you are not prepared to let your offer sit for 48hrs, then don't make one! Sellers are not necessarily waiting for offers to come in to respond immediately. 48hrs is not too long and it's not like they will shop your offer around to other buyers for $10. Do you think this is like a real estate offer? I feel sorry for the sellers that have to deal with you.

Where on eBay did you find it to say that the Buyer cannot include a shorter time limit as Additional Terms on a Best Offer? Sellers won't simply wait to see if something comes in higher? Sure it was only $25, not $10, but who are you kidding. Some sellers list things that will only sell for a couple of dollars at best.

As to sellers having problems dealing with me, I suspect that they are pretty happy. I pay for it within a few hours of auction finishing. Or acceptance of my Best Offer with any Additional Terms properly recognized. I guess I've been pretty lucky so far. Only a couple of bad experiences so far.
post #386 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley View Post
Sure, that is it. I read all the time that sellers compalin that Buyer XXX threatened to "ruin their eBay reputation" and "blackmailed" them with negative feedback. So, does that apply to "blackmailing" sellers as well? The point is that the seller made that as the first response to my complaint about the price increase above the Best Offer Amount for a delivered item. Nothing like "sorry, I misunderstood the offer" or anything else along that line. It was all just "Pay my invoice or else . . . ." I doubt that it will really tear me up too badly. Still a bit aggravating though. I expect that the "strike" will be removed from the account in another day or two. I've never received one before so not really familiar with how they are considered and reporeted by eBay.

Informing you that they will file a non paying bidder report is not blackmail. It is the proper response when you refuse to live up to your offer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley View Post
I've already spent more time exchanging emails with the seller than they warranted. They obviously knew that the Best Offer Amount was for a Delivered Price. They intentionally invoiced for an amount greater than my Best Offer amount. Could it possibly have been a seller's
mistake in not reading the Additional Terms. I don't believe it was, however, if that was the case, all the seller had to do was to ask out of the deal as they may not want to sell and deliver the item for that amount. No problem with that on my end as I'd already told them to not consider the offer any longer - I wanted to withdraw it anyway. Everyone would be happy. That was not the seller's response. I was informed in the first message from them that I could pay the jacked up amount, or else . . . ?

So, in your dealings on eBay, how much over your Best Offer amounts do you usually pay without complaining about it? It seems from reading the responses that the eBay regulars don't find an extra 15% anything out of the ordinary. I'm a bit surprised. Also surprising that Buyer's Additional Terms are regarded as meaningless and seller should just ignore them. I have generally been darned happy with buying some items on eBay, maybe I've just been pretty lucky.



You continue to paint the situation as a seller holding you to a retracted offer and invoicing you an inflated price. However, in actuality it is you who refused to live up to the terms of your offer, and who is trying to hold the seller to a lower price that is not permitted according to ebay policy. "Shipping is not negotiable". Period. End of story.

By not knowing how best offer works prior to submitting your offer, you messed up. The seller has already recieved an undeserved negative and a lot of stress/headache through no fault of their own. Please stop calling them "worm", "shady", "crooked", "real little problem", "crooked", and accusing them of blackmail. Better yet, delete your posts, because they are extremely unfair to the seller and possibly a legal issue for you should they pursue it.


Quote:
As an add on here, some might find it interesting to note that I just received a phone call from someone at eBay. Nice of them to do that. Fellow mentioned that he was working in the President's Office. Maybe Monday for a final resolution.

As a final note, I really hope this is not true. We haven't even heard from the seller, yet by your own testimony and a simple reading of the Best Offer FAQ it is obvious that Ebay should be removing the negative feedback from the sellers record and giving you an unpaid item strike. Hopefully for the sake of the seller he hasn't been assigned a complete knucklehead to review the case.


Anyways, I am done with this But it might be worth considering that the unanimous agreement of several people that have no stake in the case could mean something...
post #387 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley View Post
So, in your dealings on eBay, how much over your Best Offer amounts do you usually pay without complaining about it? It seems from reading the responses that the eBay regulars don't find an extra 15% anything out of the ordinary. I'm a bit surprised. Also surprising that Buyer's Additional Terms are regarded as meaningless and seller should just ignore them. I have generally been darned happy with buying some items on eBay, maybe I've just been pretty lucky.

I don't pay anything over, since I always account for shipping before I make an offer, and am aware of the shipping price being non-negotiable in a best-offer context

If it's unclear, I use the incredibly handy ask a question button to as ask a question and clear anything up before I put any binding offers in. It's never happened to me in this context, because its clear to me.
post #388 of 659
I dealt with Charley in this manner because he was incredibly annoying and ignorant. Annoying, mainly. I have let many buyers "off the hook" many times if they just ask in a reasonable manner. But Charley, he was a headcase from the start, as this thread evidences.

I haven't had the pleasure of reading every word of Charley's 8-year old level logic skills, but, rationally speaking, you have the following working against you:

- A Best Offer is already a contractual agreement *WHEN YOU MADE THE OFFER*, as outlined by ebay (already told you this over ebay)

- A Best Offer is explicitly designed to give the seller 48 hours before deciding. This is precisely to accommodate the reason you hate so much - so the seller can take in other offers during that time and accept the one he wants. If you didn't want this to happen, why did you bid?

- There is no way for me to adjust the price if I accept your offer. Ebay takes your price and it adds my shipping. This is easy math, I apologize that I can't accomodate nor comprehend your complex algorithm used to figure out your actual price of "take this number, times by the pi over 3 and add the GDP of Luxembourg in Pesos to the total and you have my actual offer" I don't have time for your idiotic abacus.

Irrationally speaking, you had the following working against you:

You are supremely annoying.

Anyway, this has already been presented, investigated and case closed by Ebay. Take your lumps and your negative feedback like a man. This is what feedback is for. I personally make it a case to warn other sellers of people like you. My personal stance..
post #389 of 659
I find this whole discussion to be very annoying-- an offer is what it is. If I publish an asking price of "$20 firm" and a potential buyer says to me,

"I would like to buy your item for $15,"

I can't shout, "I accept, now give me the $20-- I said the price was firm! Hah hah!"

Seller is clearly in the wrong, whatever eBay rules say.
post #390 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post
I find this whole discussion to be very annoying-- an offer is what it is. If I publish an asking price of "$20 firm" and a potential buyer says to me,

"I would like to buy your item for $15,"

I can't shout, "I accept, now give me the $20-- I said the price was firm! Hah hah!"

Seller is clearly in the wrong, whatever eBay rules say.

sure, but that's not what happened here. that's a completely different set of facts.

and remember - charley always could have (1) read the rules of the game before doing best offers, which he didn't do (with respect to timing of best offers - the rules say they last for 48 hours, and with respect to shipping prices - the rules say that part is non-negotiable) and charley could have (2) used the ask a question feature to clear up misunderstandings prior to the offer, and most importantly, charley could have (3) not jumped the gun with the neg-repping and tried to work things out instead of automatically assuming he did everything perfectly and the seller was in fault.

In fact, #3 is the reason why all this is occuring. Despite of trying to violate 2 clear rules of the ebay, Charley assumes that he did everything right and is in the clear. Had he simply said "my bad, i'll pay the listing fees" instead of neg-repping and acting as if he had been wronged, this situation would have turned out differently.
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