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Ebay Experiences - Seller ratings - Page 25

post #361 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clench Million View Post
If you have no proof that you ever mailed the package, why should PayPal or the seller believe you did?

Why should they believe that the package never arrived ? + Australia Post only provide a tracking number with postal insurance. They're usually pretty good though - a few weeks ago i sent a pair of shoes to Canada uninsured, and they got there in a week. I've never had anything go missing before.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Clench Million View Post
The only thing I don't understand in your post is the vacation comment. Are you implying the package was shipped to his house but he wasn't around to pick it up?

Yes - he stated that he was on vacation, and expected to find a package waiting for him when he returned.
post #362 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley View Post
There is a seller using the eBay ID of jacques-worn. Worm would be more properly descriptive. The seller lists a lot of shoes so many of you may have seen his listings.

He had a transaction with a Buy It Now price of $134 and described the shipping as $15 plus insurance. The listing also had a Make Best Offer feature available. I used that feature.

I made a Best Offer of $126 and specified in the Other Terms feature that the Offer was to Include the shipping. I provided my zip code so that they could evaluate the probable costs to deliver.

I did not get a response for over 24 hrs. And I saw no reason to let my offer hang to give them a chance to see if anyone else would pay more. It was not a Bid, it was a Best Offer that they could either accept or reject. I sent the seller an eBay message that I withdrew my offer and to not consider it any longer. Fifteen minutes later I get a notice from eBay that the seller had accepted my Best Offer. Then I get an Invoice through eBay showing a price of $126 plus $17 for shipping and insurance. That then is a total delivered cost of $143. Which is not what I had specified in the Make Best Offer. If the shipping is to be billed at $17, then the purchase price would be $109. Pretty simple math involved.

I sent the seller a message telling them that I did not agree to pay the amount they were billing. But, further, I had informed them that the offer was withdrawn anyway. What the heck. Not only were they trying to accept a withdrawn offer, but were trying to increases the price on me at the same time. Seems pretty shady to me, if not outright crooked.

Seller then threatens to file a Non Paying Bidder report. What the heck. The seller did not accept the Best Offer that I had made, did try to increase the offer after I had withdrawn it, and now will report me as Non Paying? Why would anyone make a threat like that?

OK. So now the seller Has filed the Non Paying Bidder report. So I get some eBay alert about a possible "strike." How should I deal with this matter. Oh, for whatever it is worth, the seller states that they have a good refund policy, Send it back for Store Credit. I would advise others to not expect to get anything from them if that situation developed. But, if that is the actual refund policy, why pursue the matter. They have the shoes and are out nothing at all. Or, then, I could pay, get the shoes, send them back so that they get some frequent flyer miles, and end up with Store Credit. Any purpose in that.

It seems that this seller is destined to be a real little problem. Suggestions for how I should deal with it would be great.


FYI: that seller is a regular forum member.

Furthermore, as per eBay rules: best offers are good for 48hrs. You cannot withdraw a best offer by emailing the seller later. If the seller accepts your offer within 48hrs, you are bound to the transaction much like a buy-it-now.

The shipping cost issue is more murky imo. Given the eBay system, you should have simply bid a price less shipping cost rather than include a note saying shipping was included. That said, the seller should in good faith consider your offer as shipping included and accept or reject it without adding the cost to your price (at least I would).

If you are prepared to pay $126 with shipping, try to work it with him because in theory, you are bound by your best offer price.
post #363 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley View Post
...The listing also had a Make Best Offer feature available. I used that feature.

I made a Best Offer of $126 and specified in the Other Terms feature that the Offer was to Include the shipping. I provided my zip code so that they could evaluate the probable costs to deliver.

Can you do this? I don't think changing the shipping price was one of the terms you can alter

Quote:
I did not get a response for over 24 hrs. And I saw no reason to let my offer hang to give them a chance to see if anyone else would pay more. It was not a Bid, it was a Best Offer that they could either accept or reject. I sent the seller an eBay message that I withdrew my offer and to not consider it any longer.

It doesn't look like you withdrew the offer properly, and I don't think you can - I think it can only be refused by the seller, or expires after 48 hours. I've never withdrew an offer, but withdrawing by ebay message is definitely not the route to go.

Quote:
Fifteen minutes later I get a notice from eBay that the seller had accepted my Best Offer. Then I get an Invoice through eBay showing a price of $126 plus $17 for shipping and insurance. That then is a total delivered cost of $143. Which is not what I had specified in the Make Best Offer. If the shipping is to be billed at $17, then the purchase price would be $109. Pretty simple math involved.
If you were willing to pay $109 plus shipping plus insurance, why didn't you make that offer?

Quote:
I sent the seller a message telling them that I did not agree to pay the amount they were billing. But, further, I had informed them that the offer was withdrawn anyway. What the heck. Not only were they trying to accept a withdrawn offer, but were trying to increases the price on me at the same time. Seems pretty shady to me, if not outright crooked.
If ebay doesn't consider the offer withdrawn, then the offer ins't withdrawn and can be accepted. Nothing "crooked" here. Those were the rules of the game that you played.

Quote:
Seller then threatens to file a Non Paying Bidder report. What the heck. The seller did not accept the Best Offer that I had made, did try to increase the offer after I had withdrawn it, and now will report me as Non Paying? Why would anyone make a threat like that?
you're assuming a lot of things here - especially that you were able to change the shipping terms (i don't think you can), and that you had actually withdrawn the offer (i don't think you did).

Quote:
OK. So now the seller Has filed the Non Paying Bidder report. So I get some eBay alert about a possible "strike." How should I deal with this matter. Oh, for whatever it is worth, the seller states that they have a good refund policy, Send it back for Store Credit. I would advise others to not expect to get anything from them if that situation developed. But, if that is the actual refund policy, why pursue the matter. They have the shoes and are out nothing at all. Or, then, I could pay, get the shoes, send them back so that they get some frequent flyer miles, and end up with Store Credit. Any purpose in that.

It seems that this seller is destined to be a real little problem. Suggestions for how I should deal with it would be great.

it seems most of the problems were created on your end. I would have figured out what i was willing to pay, and then subtracted out from that the shipping and insurance and that number would have been the number i would have bidded. you should have put $109 up, and i think most of the blame lies with you.
post #364 of 659
Here's what's at the end of the best offer thing, before you hit the submit offer button"

"Shipping and handling: Check item description and payment instructions or contact seller for details."

Since you clicked the submit offer button, and you were in the best position to clear this up, I would probably be inclined to say that you bound yourself to pay the sellers shipping rate.

Also, from the sellers position, it's better for him to get an offer of $109 with $17 shipping, rather than $126 with free shipping - even though the number is the same from the buyer's p.o.v., because ebay only charges fees on the offer side.
post #365 of 659
Homme: Unfortunately, he's going to get his money back, no matter what you do. Paypal holds sellers responsible for proving that items are delivered (not just sent). Also, for transactions over a certain amount (I believe $250), Paypal also holds buyers responsible for insuring items. It doesn't matter if the buyer tells you that he doesn't want insurance or tracking, because the terms of the Paypal user agreement hold you accountable for tracking & insurance. People often don't seem to understand that they enter into a contract with Paypal when they use the service, and that the terms of that contract are not very favorable to the user. The lessons: (a) always pay for tracking; (b) if buyers tell you they don't want to pay for insurance or tracking, tell them they can't pay by Paypal.
post #366 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homme View Post
Why should they believe that the package never arrived ? + Australia Post only provide a tracking number with postal insurance. They're usually pretty good though - a few weeks ago i sent a pair of shoes to Canada uninsured, and they got there in a week. I've never had anything go missing before.




Yes - he stated that he was on vacation, and expected to find a package waiting for him when he returned.

Well on the first point I'm saying PayPal doesn't have proof that you shipped it at all. Arrived is another thing, you aren't responsible for the arrival of the package. But you are responsible for shipping it and PayPal requires proof that you actually shipped it.

The vacation thing seems sketchy as someone could easily steal a package from a doorstep. Maybe you can use that to argue with? But PayPal tends to side with the buyer in these arguments.

Good luck.
post #367 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmin209 View Post
Homme:

Unfortunately, he's going to get his money back, no matter what you do.

Paypal holds sellers responsible for proving that items are delivered (not just sent).

Very true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmin209 View Post
Also, for transactions over a certain amount (I believe $250), Paypal also holds buyers responsible for insuring items. It doesn't matter if the buyer tells you that he doesn't want insurance or tracking, because the terms of the Paypal user agreement hold you accountable for tracking & insurance. People often don't seem to understand that they enter into a contract with Paypal when they use the service, and that the terms of that contract are not very favorable to the user.

For anything above $250, paypal requires signature confirmation (not insurance) for the seller protection policy.
post #368 of 659
Thanks for the replies - i'll never post without a tracking number again.

One last question - if paypal "withdraws" the funds from my account to refund the buyer, rather than me issuing him a refund myself; will that affect my paypal "record" at all ?
post #369 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley View Post
There is a seller using the eBay ID of jacques-worn. Worm would be more properly descriptive. The seller lists a lot of shoes so many of you may have seen his listings.

He had a transaction with a Buy It Now price of $134 and described the shipping as $15 plus insurance. The listing also had a Make Best Offer feature available. I used that feature.

I made a Best Offer of $126 and specified in the Other Terms feature that the Offer was to Include the shipping. I provided my zip code so that they could evaluate the probable costs to deliver.

I did not get a response for over 24 hrs. And I saw no reason to let my offer hang to give them a chance to see if anyone else would pay more. It was not a Bid, it was a Best Offer that they could either accept or reject. I sent the seller an eBay message that I withdrew my offer and to not consider it any longer. Fifteen minutes later I get a notice from eBay that the seller had accepted my Best Offer. Then I get an Invoice through eBay showing a price of $126 plus $17 for shipping and insurance. That then is a total delivered cost of $143. Which is not what I had specified in the Make Best Offer. If the shipping is to be billed at $17, then the purchase price would be $109. Pretty simple math involved.

I sent the seller a message telling them that I did not agree to pay the amount they were billing. But, further, I had informed them that the offer was withdrawn anyway. What the heck. Not only were they trying to accept a withdrawn offer, but were trying to increases the price on me at the same time. Seems pretty shady to me, if not outright crooked.

Seller then threatens to file a Non Paying Bidder report. What the heck. The seller did not accept the Best Offer that I had made, did try to increase the offer after I had withdrawn it, and now will report me as Non Paying? Why would anyone make a threat like that?

OK. So now the seller Has filed the Non Paying Bidder report. So I get some eBay alert about a possible "strike." How should I deal with this matter. Oh, for whatever it is worth, the seller states that they have a good refund policy, Send it back for Store Credit. I would advise others to not expect to get anything from them if that situation developed. But, if that is the actual refund policy, why pursue the matter. They have the shoes and are out nothing at all. Or, then, I could pay, get the shoes, send them back so that they get some frequent flyer miles, and end up with Store Credit. Any purpose in that.

It seems that this seller is destined to be a real little problem. Suggestions for how I should deal with it would be great.

You can't withdraw an offer like that, the seller is in the right. Also, I don't know if ebay technicaly allows you to include the shipping cost in the offer, but if so they shouldn't. Because the seller most likely will not see it before accepting the offer, and they will also have to pay fees on the shipping costs.
post #370 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVaguy View Post
Here's what's at the end of the best offer thing, before you hit the submit offer button"

"Shipping and handling: Check item description and payment instructions or contact seller for details."

Since you clicked the submit offer button, and you were in the best position to clear this up, I would probably be inclined to say that you bound yourself to pay the sellers shipping rate.

Also, from the sellers position, it's better for him to get an offer of $109 with $17 shipping, rather than $126 with free shipping - even though the number is the same from the buyer's p.o.v., because ebay only charges fees on the offer side.

I see eBay sellers claim to be able to set and enforce Their Terms for Their auctions all the time. Supposedly very strong language in their listings notifying any bidders that they have to accept the terms specified in the listing, however they may be worded. So, with similar authority, I made a Best Offer. If the seller does not agree, let them refuse it.

In this case, I did not make a Bid, and I did not use Buy It Now. Both of those would have certainly committed me to acepting the seller's stated terms. However, I did use the Make Best Offer feature. Within that feature is the provision for the BUYER using the Best Offer method to add Additional Terms. It should not be a surprise to a seller that this feature is available. I suppose I could have specified that the item be gift wrapped in lavender silk. (In the future I will certainly specify a time expiration so that I won't be used to support the market) However, the seller is under no obligation to accept what I propose. Let them turn it down, perfectly OK. Don't Accept it and Change the Terms.

Pretty crooked to attempt to accept the Best Offer, then ignore the Additional Terms, and try to invoice for a greater amount. Further more, when I informed the seller of the problem, the seller made no effort to correct the problem. All I got was a blackmail threat. It is not completely resolved yet, but seems to be swinging toward a seller reprimand of some sort. Evidently eBay considers the action the seller took as "fee avoidance." I'm not sure why that would apply but I'm not an eBay seller.
post #371 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Harris View Post
You can't withdraw an offer like that, the seller is in the right. Also, I don't know if ebay technicaly allows you to include the shipping cost in the offer, but if so they shouldn't. Because the seller most likely will not see it before accepting the offer, and they will also have to pay fees on the shipping costs.


I would not expect a reputable seller to attempt to accept an offer from someone who no longer wanted the item My mistake was in assuming I was dealing with a reputable individual.

As to the seller not reading the Additional Terms, that sounds like the excuses that disappointed buyers use. That does not seem to generate much sympathy here. I certainly made no attempt to disguise the fact that my offer was for a delivered price. But, further, if the seller was not aware of it, I did make them aware when they sent me the invoice for the jacked up amount.

If the seller wanted to not honor the Best Offer that they tried to accept, then I would have let them out of it. I had already informed them that they should ignore my Best Offer anyway. I ceratinly was not going to try to force them to complete the transaction. All that was necessary was for them to ask, not send me a blackmail threat. They were not required By Me to sell something for less than they intended.

It now seems that the "trap" that the seller tried to spring on me may end up snapping them.
post #372 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley View Post
I see eBay sellers claim to be able to set and enforce Their Terms for Their auctions all the time. Supposedly very strong language in their listings notifying any bidders that they have to accept the terms specified in the listing, however they may be worded. So, with similar authority, I made a Best Offer. If the seller does not agree, let them refuse it.

In this case, I did not make a Bid, and I did not use Buy It Now. Both of those would have certainly committed me to acepting the seller's stated terms. However, I did use the Make Best Offer feature. Within that feature is the provision for the BUYER using the Best Offer method to add Additional Terms. It should not be a surprise to a seller that this feature is available. I suppose I could have specified that the item be gift wrapped in lavender silk. (In the future I will certainly specify a time expiration so that I won't be used to support the market) However, the seller is under no obligation to accept what I propose. Let them turn it down, perfectly OK. Don't Accept it and Change the Terms.

the problem is this - when you submitted your bid, one can argue that YOU agreed to be bound by the ebay sellers shipping terms. after all, that page where you submitted you offer says, in clear English, "Shipping and handling: Check item description and payment instructions or contact seller for details." in effect, your free shipping gambit dropped out.

You saw that, and submitted your offer, and thus agreed to the shipping price. I can buy that its a screw-up, but its mostly a screw-up on your part.

Especially when it would have been a matter of 2nd grade math to put the proper number in, minus the shipping cost.

Quote:
Pretty crooked to attempt to accept the Best Offer, then ignore the Additional Terms, and try to invoice for a greater amount. Further more, when I informed the seller of the problem, the seller made no effort to correct the problem. All I got was a blackmail threat. It is not completely resolved yet, but seems to be swinging toward a seller reprimand of some sort. Evidently eBay considers the action the seller took as "fee avoidance." I'm not sure why that would apply but I'm not an eBay seller.

I seriously doubt there is going to be a seller reprimand. Here's the details as ebay sees it in their page a contrajct for $126 and $17 shipping

from http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=170211706799

Buy It Now price: \tUS $134.99 \t
Best Offer\tUS $126.00
\t
Ended:\tApr-20-08 20:48:06 PDT
Shipping costs:\t
US $17.00
Standard Flat Rate Shipping Service
Service to United States
(more services)
Ships to:\tWorldwide
Item location:\tRedwood City, California, United States
History:\tPurchases
Buyer:\tchasmeng( 128Feedback score is 100 to 499)
You can also: \tEmail to a friend
post #373 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley View Post
I would not expect a reputable seller to attempt to accept an offer from someone who no longer wanted the item My mistake was in assuming I was dealing with a reputable individual... I had already informed them that they should ignore my Best Offer anyway.

"You should use Best Offer only when you're serious about purchasing the item, service or property at your Best Offer price. Like the bids made on auction-style listings, your Best Offer is binding. if your offer is accepted by the seller, you are obligated to pay for the item, service or property."

http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/best-offer.html



Quote:
As to the seller not reading the Additional Terms, that sounds like the excuses that disappointed buyers use. That does not seem to generate much sympathy here. I certainly made no attempt to disguise the fact that my offer was for a delivered price. But, further, if the seller was not aware of it, I did make them aware when they sent me the invoice for the jacked up amount.

If the seller wanted to not honor the Best Offer that they tried to accept, then I would have let them out of it. I had already informed them that they should ignore my Best Offer anyway. I ceratinly was not going to try to force them to complete the transaction. All that was necessary was for them to ask, not send me a blackmail threat. They were not required By Me to sell something for less than they intended.

It now seems that the "trap" that the seller tried to spring on me may end up snapping them.

"For listings where you have specified shipping costs for the item, the Best Offer price includes only the listed item. For listings where you asked buyers to contact you about shipping, buyers may choose to include shipping in their offer price."

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/best-offer.html


Sorry, but you are totally in the wrong here. You really should apologize, pay up, and delete your accusations in this thread.
post #374 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Harris View Post
"You should use Best Offer only when you're serious about purchasing the item, service or property at your Best Offer price. Like the bids made on auction-style listings, your Best Offer is binding. if your offer is accepted by the seller, you are obligated to pay for the item, service or property."

http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/best-offer.html

I was serious about buying the item. I was expecting either an Acceptance or Decline message. After a full day - 26 hours - I figured out that the seller was simply sitting on it hoping for better. That was not the intent of my Best Offer, to provide them with an extended time fallback sale.





Quote:
Originally Posted by A Harris View Post
"For listings where you have specified shipping costs for the item, the Best Offer price includes only the listed item. For listings where you asked buyers to contact you about shipping, buyers may choose to include shipping in their offer price."

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/best-offer.html


Sorry, but you are totally in the wrong here. You really should apologize, pay up, and delete your accusations in this thread.

Well, No I still don't believe that I am in the wrong. You have neglected to include any effect for the inclusion of Additional Terms. If I had NOT included Additional Terms, then the Best Offer would, IMHO and seemingly yours too, result in the transaction being handled like a regular Bid or Buy It Now. That would mean that I agreed to whatever shipping cost and was described in the listing, plus the Best Offer amount. Which is exactly what the phrase you quote says.

However, with the inclusion of Additional Terms, the shipping costs could be anything. I did not specify a shipping cost. I did not negotiate a shipping cost. I specified, using the Additional Terms feature provided by eBay, that the Best Offer amount was to include whatever the shipping costs were. The seller was and is well aware of what the Best Offer was, and what the Additional Terms were. All they had to do was to Decline it. That seller was intentionally devious and knowingly attempted to jack up the price. Then further followed that up with attempted blackmail.

If you can find something on the eBay site that limits the application of what can be specified in Additional Terms, I would certainly like to read it. I have not found anything that does that. But, I don't claim to be an eBay expert at all. At this point, I also believe that eBay will agree with me.
post #375 of 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVaguy View Post
the problem is this - when you submitted your bid, one can argue that YOU agreed to be bound by the ebay sellers shipping terms. after all, that page where you submitted you offer says, in clear English, "Shipping and handling: Check item description and payment instructions or contact seller for details." in effect, your free shipping gambit dropped out.

You saw that, and submitted your offer, and thus agreed to the shipping price. I can buy that its a screw-up, but its mostly a screw-up on your part.

Especially when it would have been a matter of 2nd grade math to put the proper number in, minus the shipping cost.

IF there were no Additional Terms in my Best Offer, I would agree with you 100%. I would be bound by the seller's terms. I used Additional Terms to change those. The seller was not particularly bound by anything. They could have simply declined the offer. As to the second grade math part, I would point out that it was the seller who flunked. I know that I clearly offered $126 for a delivered price. And the seller knows that also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVaguy View Post
I seriously doubt there is going to be a seller reprimand. Here's the details as ebay sees it in their page a contrajct for $126 and $17 shipping

from http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=170211706799

Buy It Now price: \tUS $134.99 \t
Best Offer\tUS $126.00
\t
Ended:\tApr-20-08 20:48:06 PDT
Shipping costs:\t
US $17.00
Standard Flat Rate Shipping Service
Service to United States
(more services)
Ships to:\tWorldwide
Item location:\tRedwood City, California, United States
History:\tPurchases
Buyer:\tchasmeng( 128Feedback score is 100 to 499)
You can also: \tEmail to a friend

eBay is still showing what the seller reported to them.

However, this snip is lifted from an email from eBay:

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to your concern about the seller refusing to honor your agreement.

Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention. Your report will help
make the eBay Community safer for everyone.

Charley, we're concerned about violations on eBay, and we've thoroughly
investigated your report regarding "jacques-worn". Please be assured
that we've taken appropriate action in accordance with our site
policies. Our actions may include issuing a warning, temporary
suspension, indefinite suspension, or terminating the membership.


Somewhat boiler plate. However it sure does not indicate to me that I owe that seller anything. It does not indicate that I violated any "site policies." We'll see how it turns out in a few more days.
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