Beethoven invented Jazz??? - Page 2

If you re-read the posts, he actually never drew that conclusion. We always referred to it as the "boogie-woogie", or "jazz" variation in school--looks really cool on the page, to boot.

Indeed, my mistake.

No worries; I still remember as a kid how friggin' cool I thought that piece was.

Yeah, it's pretty sick. For whatever reason I never really "got into" Beethoven, but Op. 111 has always been cool. The contrast between the first and second halves is awesome.

So you are now our provisional Conne until The Great One returns?

from a musician's point of view, Bach pretty much invented jazz. His music in terms of the harmonic conventions is the same as listening to bebop; lots of II V I cadenses and a melody which is just about improvised over the top of the harmony.

Huh? The whole idea of an authentic cadence (II-V7-I, bII-V7-I, or IV-V7-I) is what has defined common practice tonality long before Bach. What's more, the V-IV progression common in jazz, blues, and rock occurs with extreme rarity in the vast majority of classical music.

And what you describe after that- basically block chords with a melody over the top- characterizes Classical-era homophony much more than Bach's usual polyphony.

the way i see it, Bach pretty much put those cadences into defined practice, as in like a rule. whereas before you could easily have something ending in another cadence, post bach there's not many pieces which don't end in V-I. [quote=tagutcow;3301190What's more, the V-IV progression common in jazz, blues, and rock occurs with extreme rarity in the vast majority of classical music. [/QUOTE] IMO the V-IV progression doesn't happens so much in jazz as it does blues. e.g. here: http://www.jazzguitar.be/jazz_blues_...gressions.html anything after Basie subs out the V-IV progression. nah, i think you've misinterpreted me. Classical homophony is more like 2 or more parts moving in harmony with the same rhythm, from what i know. I.e. you get more chords and such since the parts kinda move together. baroque polyphony is more like you're gonna have a bass part with it's own distinct line, and a couple of other layers, and generally a melody playing over the top. Which to me is very jazz-like; you got a walking bass line, a couple of rhythmic harmonics e.g. a piano or guitar, then a soloist e.g. a trumpeter. Also baroque music is much more likely to change scales as the harmony changes, which is very jazz and bebop. Less dependence on the overall key of the piece. (although still returning to its key in general). also, classical music is more defined in that your not meant to sub in and out different instruments, but you can do that in baroque much more easily. tritones are also pretty common in baroque, as well as improvisation note that i'm avoiding modal jazz in all of this. cos it's kinda the opposite of what i'm saying.