Styleforum › Forums › General › Entertainment and Culture › Beethoven invented Jazz???
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Beethoven invented Jazz???

post #1 of 25
1/29/08 at 6:44pm
Thread Starter 
Ok, so I'm listening to Beethoven's last piano sonata, No. 32 Op. 111 and during the second movement, the music sounds like jazz, not classical music, not romantic music, but jazz?!?!?



Jon.
Reply
Reply
post #2 of 25
1/29/08 at 6:57pm
Black folk can't have nothin'.
Reply
Reply
post #3 of 25
1/29/08 at 6:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kronik View Post
Black folk can't have nothin'.

Well there is a controversy that he was actually Mulatto.

Jon.
Reply
Reply
post #4 of 25
1/29/08 at 7:13pm
I never noticed that. Okay, I've got Pollini playing now, and I could see how a decent player would put some boogie-woogie into it.

I've yet to sit through the Diabelli variations, mostly because I cannot deal with the ragtime-feel that crops up early on. Damn existential crisis.
Reply
Reply
post #5 of 25
1/29/08 at 7:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kronik View Post
Black folk can't have nothin'.
Reply
Reply
post #6 of 25
1/29/08 at 8:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kronik View Post
Black folk can't have nothin'.

Does that explain why Obama is being attacked by the Clintons?
Reply
Reply
post #7 of 25
1/30/08 at 4:04am
Am listening to the Schnabel recording now. I think I can see what you mean, but it's not really jazz per se--just irregular rhythms very reminiscent of ragtime. Keep in mind, though, that he was deaf by the time he wrote this. Compare, for example, his late string quartets, which have an otherworldly, almost metaphysical quality.
Reply
Reply
post #8 of 25
1/30/08 at 11:49am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by landho View Post
Am listening to the Schnabel recording now. I think I can see what you mean, but it's not really jazz per se--just irregular rhythms very reminiscent of ragtime. Keep in mind, though, that he was deaf by the time he wrote this. Compare, for example, his late string quartets, which have an otherworldly, almost metaphysical quality.

Indeed, it's very bizarre; I mean it sounds ragtime-like before it converts to jazz-like. It's really, really ahead of its time.

Jon.
Reply
Reply
post #9 of 25
1/30/08 at 2:02pm
I swear I hear hints of Roll Over Beethoven in the latter half of the first movement. Too bad no one picked it up until Chuck Berry.
Reply
Reply
post #10 of 25
1/30/08 at 2:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas View Post
I swear I hear hints of Roll Over Beethoven in the latter half of the first movement. Too bad no one picked it up until Chuck Berry.

It's so syncopated that I'm truly in shock. I mean as much as I like the later string sonatas for their forward-thinking style, this has got to be the most advanced leap of music I have ever heard; this truly is 180 years ahead of its time.

Jon.
Reply
Reply
post #11 of 25
1/30/08 at 2:08pm
On the subject, Jacque Loussier has made a career out of jazz interpretations of Bach compositions. He's an excellent piano player and typically works with a traditional trio with bass and drums. It's pretty interesting to hear a breakdown into a bass piano call-and-response jam in the middle of Toccata and Fugue in D minor. He also did The Four Seasons.
Reply
Reply
post #12 of 25
1/30/08 at 9:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by imageWIS View Post
It's so syncopated that I'm truly in shock. I mean as much as I like the later string sonatas for their forward-thinking style, this has got to be the most advanced leap of music I have ever heard; this truly is 180 years ahead of its time.

Jon.

Many would argue that it is a regression.
Reply
Reply
post #13 of 25
1/30/08 at 9:39pm
111 is the $#!+.

Better than the syncopated variations, however, are the arpegios.
Reply
Reply
post #14 of 25
1/30/08 at 9:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artisan Fan View Post
Does that explain why Obama is being attacked by the Clintons?

No. It explains why many people don't want Hillary and Bill back in office. *insert Motown smilie*
Reply
Reply
post #15 of 25
1/30/08 at 9:57pm
Jon--I really don't see how you draw the conclusion that Beethoven invented jazz with Op. 111. It's great, but it's definitely not jazz.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Entertainment and Culture
Styleforum › Forums › General › Entertainment and Culture › Beethoven invented Jazz???