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I have a jean...(The Ultimate Jean Thread For Beginners) - ask questions here. - Page 1105

post #16561 of 20607
[xposting from 3Sixteen thread]

The topblock of the 3sixteen SL-100x fits me better than the STs, but I'd like to taper the bottom half of the SL-100x. Can this be done to denim of that quality while still preserving the longevity of the jeans?
post #16562 of 20607
Quote:
Originally Posted by whodini View Post

I know that APC, N&F, and a few other brands are listed as "gateway" jeans, but I don't know if you'll really see the difference until you get into some higher end stuff. The good thing about N&F is that their fabrics are unusual and with their collabs they source some good denim. I'm not sure if I'd put their regular stuff past anything like Nudie or APC, though, and I have some reservations as far as construction but at least their retail or discounted price doesn't make it that much of a sacrifice.
Not trying to stop you, just trying to inform you that your purchase may be a step up in the right direction but to temper your expectations. There's a reason why people who are really into denim rarely dip back to those brands unless in love with a specific fabric or fit. I'd personally hold off for better brands on ebay or B&S to pop up in my size.

Yeah, I don't think I was looking at any special N&F collabs - just their $135-140 models, the appeal being a sub-$100 price after Revolve's new customer 30% discount. They have Nudie available as well for a little more. A brief search of eBay seems like there's a number of decent deals, so I'll check that out more as an alternative to Revolve. And as far as my expectations go, I've been wearing $20 jeans for the past 5 years - I think any improvement would be much appreciated, haha.

 

If not for those gateway brands, what better brands would you recommend? I browsed this thread a little to get some ideas, but there are a lottt of brands listed. I also feel like since I don't know anything about individual brands' quality, I'm swayed a lot by how jeans fit models in pictures, and some sites just do a bad job of picking good fits. From the pictures, this is pretty much how I'd want my jeans to fit.

 

Question on stretching: I know you have to account for how much various areas will stretch out after use, but how permanent are those changes? Would they revert back after washing, or is there gradual stretching over the lifetime of the jeans? Since I don't care about fading, I won't hesitate to wash them so I'm not sure how much I should size down based on my waist. I might head to Need Supply soon to try on some stuff, but I think the smallest listed sizes they carry are 28s.

 

post #16563 of 20607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samir View Post

Yeah, I don't think I was looking at any special N&F collabs - just their $135-140 models, the appeal being a sub-$100 price after Revolve's new customer 30% discount. They have Nudie available as well for a little more. A brief search of eBay seems like there's a number of decent deals, so I'll check that out more as an alternative to Revolve. And as far as my expectations go, I've been wearing $20 jeans for the past 5 years - I think any improvement would be much appreciated, haha.

If not for those gateway brands, what better brands would you recommend? I browsed this thread a little to get some ideas, but there are a lottt of brands listed. I also feel like since I don't know anything about individual brands' quality, I'm swayed a lot by how jeans fit models in pictures, and some sites just do a bad job of picking good fits. From the pictures, this is pretty much how I'd want my jeans to fit.

Question on stretching: I know you have to account for how much various areas will stretch out after use, but how permanent are those changes? Would they revert back after washing, or is there gradual stretching over the lifetime of the jeans? Since I don't care about fading, I won't hesitate to wash them so I'm not sure how much I should size down based on my waist. I might head to Need Supply soon to try on some stuff, but I think the smallest listed sizes they carry are 28s.

In the price range that you are looking at, I don't think it gets a whole lot better than the brands you have already mentioned, especially taking into account the discounts that you mentioned, and since you haven't worn jeans that cost more than $20 in the past, you'll probably be satisfied with the construction quality with any of N&F, APC, or Nudie. There are a few brands, such as Rogue Territory and 3sixteen, that are considered to be of a little higher construction quality than the aforementioned 3, but they will be closer to Nudie in price, and it is more difficult to find significant discounts for these brands.

Stretching is more or less permanent. Your jeans will revert back to their original size after washing, but the more you wash them and wear them, the faster they stretch back out the next time. I have a 10-year-old pair of jeans (started out as raw denim) that stretches back out with wear within an hour of being washed. Also, if you want to your jeans to stay dark, don't wash too often. Washing makes your jeans fade faster; it just makes them fade evenly rather than with more contrast in the higher friction areas.
post #16564 of 20607
N&F collabs should go on sale at Barneys soon. I've been waiting months to kop the Onis
post #16565 of 20607
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevent View Post

N&F collabs should go on sale at Barneys soon. I've been waiting months to kop the Onis

Dam stevent you are like my denim twin. Waiting for the same pair. Hope you are not around 29~30 range. Hows your NF X BJ doing?
post #16566 of 20607
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceoceo View Post

Dam stevent you are like my denim twin. Waiting for the same pair. Hope you are not around 29~30 range. Hows your NF X BJ doing?

haha no I'm a size 32-34. I waited for additional drops on the BJs this summer and they were sold out in my size by the time I wanted to buy facepalm.gif
post #16567 of 20607
Oh gosh that's a bummer. I bought BJs the first day they came out, no regrets. Will give 3rd wash soon as soon as real winter starts.
Oni will stay longer I think local customers for Barneys are not so enthusiastic about "weird cut" jeans. Note that Momo jeans went for $108 in all sizes
post #16568 of 20607
Aside from the mostly ambiguous 'fit', 'quality of details' and 'quality of denim', what makes top-shelf premium denim cost more than mid-priced premium denim?

As an example, what makes Somet denim worth $325 a pair versus $175 for something simple like APCs? Fit notwithstanding, someone could easily prefer one fit to another, so that doesn't warrant the huge premium in my mind. What else is it?
post #16569 of 20607
Quote:
Originally Posted by superego View Post

Aside from the mostly ambiguous 'fit', 'quality of details' and 'quality of denim', what makes top-shelf premium denim cost more than mid-priced premium denim?
As an example, what makes Somet denim worth $325 a pair versus $175 for something simple like APCs? Fit notwithstanding, someone could easily prefer one fit to another, so that doesn't warrant the huge premium in my mind. What else is it?

The cost differences in a factory in Tunisia or Macau vs workers in Japan is easily a good amount of money. Also limited supply, APCs are everywhere and everyone has them, not very special vs. Somet, which as far as I know is only available at BiG and limited sizes at Context. And Somet's rivets are gold plated icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
post #16570 of 20607
I realize most of the denim talk here is about raw selvedge, but anyone have ideas about good black waxed jeans?
post #16571 of 20607
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevent View Post

The cost differences in a factory in Tunisia or Macau vs workers in Japan is easily a good amount of money. Also limited supply, APCs are everywhere and everyone has them, not very special vs. Somet, which as far as I know is only available at BiG and limited sizes at Context. And Somet's rivets are gold plated icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

So you'd say it's largely a supply/demand thing? Somet is less common, so it commands a higher premium. And costs of production (which I figured was part of it). Seems like you know it because it's something you care about, so you've spent a ton of time reading on here and elsewhere. How would the average consumer have any awareness of that though?
post #16572 of 20607
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by superego View Post

Aside from the mostly ambiguous 'fit', 'quality of details' and 'quality of denim', what makes top-shelf premium denim cost more than mid-priced premium denim?
As an example, what makes Somet denim worth $325 a pair versus $175 for something simple like APCs? Fit notwithstanding, someone could easily prefer one fit to another, so that doesn't warrant the huge premium in my mind. What else is it?
"Fit" isn't even a part of the equation at that point, it's considered to be part of what separates $30 cookie-cutter jeans from $200 "designer" jeans but not the difference between $150 and $300 jeans.

Supply/demand? Uh, I suppose to an extent that's true but more in the sense that jeans at higher price levels aren't often discounted as often or as deeply their mass-produced counter parts; this is due to the relatively small market that is already open to paying a premium. In a sense, it's true that as a consumer one would tick off certain details about a pair of jeans and come up with a mental "premium" price range, and that any company could just play right into those expectations. But how about "supply" in the sense that there is such a saturated market for Japanese denim brands? What's available in the US is a fraction of what's produced in Japan and other countries. And yet the prices all sort of stay in check because the markups stay the same (for the most part) as do production costs. Why are Japanese brands sold in Japan for roughly the same price as in the States minus import duties/exchange rates if there's more supply and just as much demand there? tl;dr: I don't buy the supply/demand argument at all.

Far more likely and explainable factors include fabric costs, import duties, and production. It's not just that APC jeans are made where they're made, it's that their denim is produced cheaply, too. Compare them to a brand like Somet that's importing higher-quality cotton to Japan, creating their own denim in smaller batches, using more expensive details (buttons, patches, etc.) that add up to the retail cost, taking more time in producing each pair (some brands more than others), and then exporting them back over to the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by superego View Post

How would the average consumer have any awareness of that though?
The average consumer isn't buying niche products so no one is expecting them to understand the paid premium other than perhaps the instinct that "it's more expensive, ergo it must be better." How many people shop this way without any need of justification? Like anything else, the only people who need to be sold on the details are the people who actually care about them in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatsbee View Post

I realize most of the denim talk here is about raw selvedge, but anyone have ideas about good black waxed jeans?
Cheap or not cheap?
post #16573 of 20607
Could you give me examples of both cheap and not cheap? I know Dior makes some, but i can't seem to find them anywhere.
post #16574 of 20607
Thread Starter 
Kill City, Nudie, etc. vs Dior, Drkshdw, etc.
post #16575 of 20607
Planning a future denim purchase - looking at the Eternal 811 vs. Momotaro 201. Popular opinion? Pros or cons?
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