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Hamstrings in supersets?

post #1 of 37
1/22/08 at 5:47pm
Thread Starter 
In most of my gym routines I do supersets with opposing muscle groups. I'll alternate between pullups and military press, for instance (pulling down vs. pushing up), and also between bench presses and rows (pushing out vs. pulling back). I've been doing the same thing for my legs, but now I'm starting to wonder if I might be overdoing it.

When you look at what muscle groups get utilized during squats, dead lifts, and lunges, they always say hamstrings as well as quads. But I've been alternating hamstring curls with my squats, thinking that the squats work the quads and the curls work the hamstrings in opposition.

I'm curious what others think of this. If squats, deadlifts, and lunges truly give the hamstrings a good workout, then perhaps I shouldn't superset them with exercises that isolate the hamstrings. Opinions, please.
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post #2 of 37
1/22/08 at 7:54pm
I don't superset anything with squats, really. If you superset squats you probably aren't working hard enough on the squats. Realistically, most people don't get a hamstring workout from squats because they don't go down far enough.
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post #3 of 37
1/22/08 at 8:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by why View Post
I don't superset anything with squats, really. If you superset squats you probably aren't working hard enough on the squats.

Realistically, most people don't get a hamstring workout from squats because they don't go down far enough.

Thanks for your thoughts. In your opinion, are squats unique in this regard, or do you feel the same about lunges and deadlifts?
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post #4 of 37
1/22/08 at 8:28pm
I think lower body lifts are different from upper body in terms of agonist/antagonist involvement because glutes, hams, and quads are all working on the lifts. So if you want more glute/ham involvement, go deep on squats, and use a long stride on lunges. Do SLDLs, RDLs, or sumo-style if you want more hams and glutes on deadlifts. Personally, thinking about supersetting anything with squats makes me feel like crying. If you're working squats hard enough, a superset will only decrease your performance on them.
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post #5 of 37
1/22/08 at 11:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by why View Post
I don't superset anything with squats, really. If you superset squats you probably aren't working hard enough on the squats.

Realistically, most people don't get a hamstring workout from squats because they don't go down far enough.

Actually stance width is more important.

Depth is very important, and 90% of people (literally) do not go deep enough.

But if you have a narrow stance (Olympic) it works your quads. Wider stances means more hamstrings and glutes.

But it doesn't matter what stance you use if you aren't go at least to parallel.
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post #6 of 37
1/22/08 at 11:59pm
Depth and foot angle are the main ways to work hamstrings with squats, not stance width. With the toes pointed outward, the semimembranosus and semitendinosus are worked decently well. With a deep enough squat the origin of the biceps femoris can be worked as well. I prefer front squats for the biceps femoris origin, myself.

If you want to work hamstrings with deadlifts, just do Romanian deadlifts (which most people do anyway) or stiff-leg.

Lunges do not work hamstrings all that well in my opinion (impossible to go deep enough), but if you want to work hamstrings with lunges, just lengthen the stride.

Keep in mind that the hamstrings are worked eccentrically with squats, deadlifts, and lunges and muscle soreness can be incredible as a result. You should see your semimembranosus and semitendinosus in particular put on quite a bit of size after a few weeks of training with deep squats.

Deep squats from the Golden Eagle (during a roid cycle, but anyway...) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjtVvYk1HWw
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post #7 of 37
1/23/08 at 12:01am
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Originally Posted by why View Post
If you superset squats you probably aren't working hard enough on the squats.

Sergey Litvinov disagrees.
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post #8 of 37
1/23/08 at 12:43am
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Originally Posted by whacked View Post
Makes me wish I had access to a sled. or heavy portable weights I could take to the track.
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post #9 of 37
1/23/08 at 6:38am
How long is your rest period? I've supersetted Squats and Powercleans once, it wasn't fun but it's possible... If you're doing a narrow and almost to 90 degree squat, you'll be working quads mostly and it might make sense to work hamstrings seperately. If you're going deeper or using a wider stance, you'll be working the hamstrings enough that I wouldn't recommend supersetting the antagonist. For some other leg exercises that get the glutes, quads, hamstrings, and calves, try heavy single leg press (foot high on the sled, bring the knee deep, <90 degrees) or single leg squats off a bench.
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post #10 of 37
1/23/08 at 1:23pm
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Originally Posted by whacked View Post

No he doesn't. He ran. He didn't do another exercise that isometrically worked the lower back and eccentrically worked the glutes and hams.
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post #11 of 37
1/23/08 at 7:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by why View Post
No he doesn't. He ran. He didn't do another exercise that isometrically worked the lower back and eccentrically worked the glutes and hams.

I would think running holding any significant amount of weight in a front squat position would work damn near every large muscle in your body.
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post #12 of 37
1/23/08 at 8:15pm
Probably, but that's not what Litvinov was doing. Running with a loaded barbell would be inviting injury, I would think.
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post #13 of 37
1/23/08 at 8:51pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by why View Post
Deep squats from the Golden Eagle (during a roid cycle, but anyway...) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjtVvYk1HWw
Jesus Christ! Was that guy's ass hitting the floor?

If I went that deep, even with an an unloaded barbell, I'm sure my kneecaps would shoot across the room.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eason View Post
How long is your rest period? If you're doing a narrow and almost to 90 degree squat, you'll be working quads mostly and it might make sense to work hamstrings seperately. If you're going deeper or using a wider stance, you'll be working the hamstrings enough that I wouldn't recommend supersetting the antagonist. For some other leg exercises that get the glutes, quads, hamstrings, and calves, try heavy single leg press (foot high on the sled, bring the knee deep, <90 degrees) or single leg squats off a bench.
I've been using a wide stance with toes pointed at 10 and 2 as I've heard this is safer for tall, lean guys and also allows us to go deeper. (My ass doesn't touch the floor, though.) Regarding rests, I'll generally do a set of squats, stagger immediately over to the leg curl machine and do a set of those, and then I'll quietly sob for 90 seconds before returning to the squat rack to start over.

On days that I do lunges for my quads instead of squats, I alternate them with curls on a different machine (sitting up instead of lying down), and on days when I'm doing deadlifts for my quads, I alternate them with something called glute-ham raises, which is not an easy exercise to describe, but it concentrates on the hamstrings and lower back.
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post #14 of 37
1/24/08 at 10:47pm
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Originally Posted by Threadbearer View Post
Jesus Christ! Was that guy's ass hitting the floor?

That's a full squat (aka Olympic squat). Try them. They're pretty fun and work the glutes very well. You really need to gather up a lot of power to get the bar up out of the bottom range of motion.

Quote:
On days that I do lunges for my quads instead of squats, I alternate them with curls on a different machine (sitting up instead of lying down), and on days when I'm doing deadlifts for my quads, I alternate them with something called glute-ham raises, which is not an easy exercise to describe, but it concentrates on the hamstrings and lower back.

Deadlifts are not a real quadricep exercise. And get off those damn machines!
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post #15 of 37
1/25/08 at 12:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by why View Post
No he doesn't. He ran. He didn't do another exercise that isometrically worked the lower back and eccentrically worked the glutes and hams.
The link was posted in response to your first quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by why
I don't superset anything with squats, really. If you superset squats you probably aren't working hard enough on the squats.
Agree that it does not perfectly complement the squat. However, sprinting works leg and lower back muscles like no other; that and the incredible HGH response make it an awesome, hmmmmmm, supplementary exercise.


Quote:
Originally Posted by why
Deep squats from the Golden Eagle (during a roid cycle, but anyway...) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjtVvYk1HWw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threadbearer View Post
Jesus Christ! Was that guy's ass hitting the floor?
No they definitely did not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by why View Post
That's a full squat (aka Olympic squat). Try them. They're pretty fun and work the glutes very well. You really need to gather up a lot of power to get the bar up out of the bottom range of motion.
+1
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