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Indochino suits? - Page 200

post #2986 of 3209
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensimageconsultant View Post

The collar needs fixing, the shoulders are flawed, and the jacket is too short. Despite that, it doesn't look bad (for casual use only). Nice-looking color and fabric.

The jacket is an inch or two shorter then standard but slightly shorter jackets are in fashion at the moment

 

Did you press the jacket before the photos? The collar isn't sitting properly but a good press may solve it.

 

I don't think the shoulders are flawed. I think the problem is that you carry your arms forward quite considerably. In all the photos your arms seem to be held at a 30 degree forward angle. This is an exceptionally large angle even for an "arms forward" body. Accordingly it's causing the sleeves to pull at the back and pulling the shoulders slightly askew. You need to have the sleeves rotated and keep this in mind for future purchases.

 

I'd also remeasure your crotch measurements. Perhaps measuring a good fitting pair of dress pants

 

Overall though not a bad effort for your second go. You're definitely getting there. Just a few more tweaks

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post #2987 of 3209


FYI... I am not wearing shoes, so the pants are bunched up below my knees.
post #2988 of 3209

Quote:

Originally Posted by mensimageconsultant View Post

The collar needs fixing, the shoulders are flawed, and the jacket is too short. Despite that, it doesn't look bad (for casual use only). Nice-looking color and fabric.

 

Those are the criticisms that I was going to make. The shoulders look a bit too wide and bunched up. The jacket covers your butt, but it still looks short. You've got collar gap. The sleeves are also a bit too short.

 

All in all, the jacket doesn't look bad. It fits better than most of the suits that I see in everyday life.

post #2989 of 3209
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensimageconsultant View Post

The collar needs fixing, the shoulders are flawed, and the jacket is too short. Despite that, it doesn't look bad (for casual use only). Nice-looking color and fabric.

Thanks. What is it about the collar that needs fixing specifically? Collar gap as the gents below also suggested?

How are the shoulders flawed specifically? Too wide and bunched up like the guys below also suggested?

I'm still pretty new to suits; I greatly appreciate all input but would benefit from deeper analysis please. You've told me what's wrong (which is fantastic) but I also need to be told what's right. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon at Elite View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mensimageconsultant View Post

The collar needs fixing, the shoulders are flawed, and the jacket is too short. Despite that, it doesn't look bad (for casual use only). Nice-looking color and fabric.
The jacket is an inch or two shorter then standard but slightly shorter jackets are in fashion at the moment

Did you press the jacket before the photos? The collar isn't sitting properly but a good press may solve it.

I don't think the shoulders are flawed. I think the problem is that you carry your arms forward quite considerably. In all the photos your arms seem to be held at a 30 degree forward angle. This is an exceptionally large angle even for an "arms forward" body. Accordingly it's causing the sleeves to pull at the back and pulling the shoulders slightly askew. You need to have the sleeves rotated and keep this in mind for future purchases.

I'd also remeasure your crotch measurements. Perhaps measuring a good fitting pair of dress pants


Overall though not a bad effort for your second go. You're definitely getting there. Just a few more tweaks

If it's too short, do you guys suggest a remake? I haven't pressed anything; I received the package on Friday night and then let it hang in my closet to relax until the Sunday afternoon I took those photos.

Now that I look at my photos, I never realized how forward my arms are. It was entirely unconscious and natural to hang my arms in that forward position. I even stood up as I was typing this paragraph to verify that, indeed, my arms don't hang straight down unless I really roll my shoulders back (bringing my shoulder blades together). So what the camera captured, for better or for worse, was my "natural" position.

I'm not sure there is a shoulder rotation option on the Indochino alterations form: http://www.indochino.com/download/Alterations_form.pdf However there is a space for comments; perhaps that would be the best area to write down a rotation of 30 degrees forward for a remake?

What is it about the crotch? The pants are slim (as are the pants on my Essential Navy Suit, which my tailor said was perfect and I never tweaked from then on) and I have good mobility. I will also admit, quite willingly so, that I am not extremely well-endowed. lol8[1].gif So my package doesn't really seem to factor much into the equation. Just something to consider. lol8[1].gif

Strangely enough, for my second go, even though I didn't tweak anything between taking ownership of my Essential Navy Suit and this Navy Cotton Suit, the jacket fits differently, particularly the way the tail looks. It didn't hang quite as straight before. Here's a photo of the Essential Navy Suit for comparison, but in real life the flap hangs a bit straighter than the photo suggests:

indochino_navy_remake15.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyMac View Post

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensimageconsultant View Post

The collar needs fixing, the shoulders are flawed, and the jacket is too short. Despite that, it doesn't look bad (for casual use only). Nice-looking color and fabric.

Those are the criticisms that I was going to make. The shoulders look a bit too wide and bunched up. The jacket covers your butt, but it still looks short. You've got collar gap. The sleeves are also a bit too short.

All in all, the jacket doesn't look bad. It fits better than most of the suits that I see in everyday life.

Regarding the collar gap, I am not sure why collar gap shows up on the final photo of the series but doesn't seem to appear on the other ten photos... or is my eye just not trained enough yet? I'm genuinely confused.

If I do get a remake, if only for the sleeves (which do look a tad short), by how much would you recommend I shorten?

Thank you all for your generous feedback and I look forward to any further constructive criticism. smile.gif

EDIT - I should also disclose that I visited an Indochino Traveling Tailor to be measured by them and buy my first suit (Essential Navy Suit) in spring 2012. I was one of the ones who escaped self-measuring and the self-worry that comes with that.
Edited by Karl Drogo - 2/12/13 at 7:17pm
post #2990 of 3209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Drogo View Post


I'm still pretty new to suits; I greatly appreciate all input but would benefit from deeper analysis please. You've told me what's wrong (which is fantastic) but I also need to be told what's right. smile.gif
If it's too short, do you guys suggest a remake? I haven't pressed anything; I received the package on Friday night and then let it hang in my closet to relax until the Sunday afternoon I took those photos.

Looks pretty good mate! Love the colour.
As others said, the sleeves look a little short is about the only thing i notice. Even the length while technically a tad short, looks perfect on you imo.

Damn now i'm regretting not getting the slim notch, being of a similar build as you. I just kept reading that the lapels are slim enough already.
I'll be happy if mine turns out anything close to your fit to be honest.
post #2991 of 3209
With everybody's constructive feedback and sharp eye in mind, this morning I e-mailed Indochino for style advice and included all the photos of me wearing the Navy Cotton Suit. They replied in a very detailed fashion within three hours! I am continually impressed by their customer service.

Here's the e-mail I wrote to them (abridged):
Quote:
Dear Indochino,

My ship date for Order #****** was February 5, 2013. I understand that remakes can be requested within 14 days of this ship date. I am seeking your personal advice on a possible remake before I go through the official process. Due to the extensive nature of possible adjustments, I don't feel like a tailor will be able to work his magic so I may have to skip that step.

I have attached many photos below of me wearing the Indochino Navy Cotton Suit from Order #******. I was wondering if you could please advise on the fit. Some various critiques I have received include the following:

-Is the jacket an inch or two shorter than normal? It covers my butt, but if I were to extend my arms perfectly straight downward, it would fail the test where I would curl my fingers and be able to cup the bottom of the jacket. If the jacket needs to be lengthened, will that affect the button stance? Does the top button currently seem just a tad higher than my natural waistline? If so, should it not be lowered accordingly with the lengthening of the jacket?

-My arms hang naturally in a forward angled position as seen in the photos. Apparently this is affecting the jacket armholes and it's causing the sleeves to pull at the back and pulling the shoulders slightly askew. Does this assessment seem right to you? If so, is it possible to rotate the sleeves forward?

-Do the jacket shoulders appear a tad wide and causing them to bunch up? I think these are called "shoulder divots". You can see the rippling effect on the front photos ever so slightly, but are quite obvious when viewed on the back photos.

-One person also suggested reevaluating my crotch measurements. I do like slim pants, but from the way the pants look in the photos, do you suggest any changes? The pants are a tiny bit on the tight side in the crotch/butt region, restricting mobility a bit (especially when I need to spread my legs like when I'm kneeling, squatting, or have one leg propped up higher than the other.

-Do the jacket sleeves look a tad short to you? There seems to be a bit more shirt cuff showing than normal. (The shirt is an Indochino Light Blue Essential Wrinkle-Free Shirt.)

-A couple of people noted that I seem to have "collar gap"; that is, the jacket lapel doesn't follow the shirt collar and the tips of the collar points don't "kiss" the jacket lapel (instead, it comes inward and you can see the tips). Should the jacket lapel/collar hug the shirt collar a bit tighter?

-Could the jacket back be tightened up ever so slightly, without the excessive extreme seen in my previous Indochino Essential Navy Suit which makes the vent flap hang a bit unnaturally? Seen here: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/notp1/indochino_navy/indochino_navy_remake15.jpg I have no idea how to fix this.

Is there anything else you might have spotted that could be fine-tuned? Below are the photos of the Navy Cotton Suit as a reference point.

---Here I linked the photos of Navy Cotton Suit you've seen a few posts above.---

Thank you for any and all style advice you may be able to provide.

---Name removed---

And here is their informative and timely reply!
Quote:
Hello ***,

Thank you very much for your email.

I have re-set your Account to enable you to apply for a Remake via our website

To ensure you receive the best possible fit, please base the measurement adjustments on the Suit you received. Please DO NOT re-measure yourself.

Simply put on the Suit and jot down where it needs to be taken in (or let out, as the case may be) in inches. You will then be prompted during the remake application to enter in these adjustments.

Also, please note in the comment field any further issues you had with your original order and please upload photos of yourself wearing the Suit to further assist our tailors address the fit issues.

(Please ensure that any attachments/photos uploaded are in .JPG format only and do not exceed 1MB in file size each.)

Based on you photos, the Jacket Length seems ideal. The ideal length for our Jackets is to hit around the first thumb knuckle (when your hands are by your side). But ultimately, a Jacket’s length is a personal preference. Some Customers prefer it an 1" shorter, and other 3" longer.

The Jacket’s button stance is determined by its length in proportion to the lapels, which is in turn is determined by your torso/body measurements. As such, button stance location is not a customizable feature on our Suits.

Unfortunately we are unable to rotate sleeves on our Jackets.

The Shoulder Width appears okay, but could be improved with a reduction of between 0.25-0.75".

As for the Crotch adjustment, this can be best determined by you, but an increase would help eliminate the “wedgie” tightness you described.

Sleeve Length appears perfect when worn with your Shirt. Ideally you want between 0.25-0.75" of Shirt Cuff showing.

Should you want the “collar gap” to be reduced, you can try a reduction to your Chest measurement, but this isn’t really advised. The gap between lapel and collar is ultimately determined by the style/cut of your Suit, Lapel style/with and of course the Collar style of your Shirt you are wearing.

Regarding Jacket Hips/Vents, you may wish to slightly reduce this (0.25-0.5), of have this down by a local tailor.

Once received, our Tailors will assess your Remake request before approving it for production.

Should you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us at any time.

Regards,

***
Concierge Service

Looks like the most major thing that cannot be altered is rotation of the shoulder/sleeves to accommodate for the fact that my arms naturally hang forward. Perhaps I can compensate by adjusting my posture and the way I stand and being conscious of where in space I am placing my arms/hands. But at least I can measure and alter everything else, I imagine.

My trouble is that I've also got an Essential Charcoal Suit and Supervisor Black & Blue Pinstriped Shirt currently in production, which I had ordered during the 2013 Chinese New Year sale (my third Indochino purchase). With their digital cutting process, I would imagine this charcoal suit will turn out exactly the same way as this flawed Navy Cotton Suit, which will also warrant a remake. I kinda feel bad for them since I'm clearly eating up their precious resources, and feeling bad for myself in that I keep learning more and more about suits every day, resulting in me feeling less and less satisfied with previous purchases as the glaring flaws stand out and I have to fine-tune them for future purchases.

Question for all as I work myself through reading every post of this giant thread: How many iterations (remakes or separate purchases) did it take you guys until you arrived at "perfection"? Hopefully for me, third time's the charm.

Thanks again for the valuable insight and discussion. Still learning a lot and hope to refine myself.

EDIT - Within minutes of me expressing my concern (via e-mail) for the Essential Charcoal Suit and Supervisor Pinstriped Shirt order currently in production, Indochino replied that they're freezing production until we can sort out the Navy Cotton Suit issues and confirm that the fit is fine. WONDERFUL! smile.gif I cannot sing my ongoing praises for Indochino customer support enough.
Edited by Karl Drogo - 2/13/13 at 12:20pm
post #2992 of 3209

blazer selection is weak`

post #2993 of 3209

My first IC suit came in yesterday. I'm very pleased with it out of the box. It fits comfortably, and the color is great.  My only alterations will be to let the sleeves and pants out 1 inch as both are a little short. Other than that I think I lucked out. Shoulders look good, right sleeve was wrinkled from in the box. Crotch fits snug but wanted a more modern look and can deal with the jacket being .5 inch short. The material feels a bit on the thin side so I doubt it'd be good for but a 3 season suit. Mine is the Charcoal essential finished off with a perfect fitting Blank Label MTM (just wrinkled and grabbed off the floor) and a pair of Johnston & Murphy's. Sorry for the dirty mirror, and the second pic shows the color better than in my closet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #2994 of 3209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Raynore View Post

My first IC suit came in yesterday. I'm very pleased with it out of the box. It fits comfortably, and the color is great.  My only alterations will be to let the sleeves and pants out 1 inch as both are a little short. Other than that I think I lucked out. Shoulders look good, right sleeve was wrinkled from in the box. Crotch fits snug but wanted a more modern look and can deal with the jacket being .5 inch short. The material feels a bit on the thin side so I doubt it'd be good for but a 3 season suit. Mine is the Charcoal essential finished off with a perfect fitting Blank Label MTM (just wrinkled and grabbed off the floor) and a pair of Johnston & Murphy's. Sorry for the dirty mirror, and the second pic shows the color better than in my closet.

Looks pretty good I think - the shoulders are fine, which is already an important thing. Somehow, it looks a bit weird around the belly area - can it be you need more waist suppression? Hard to tell, but somehow that area could be improved in my opinion. Probably nothing a local tailor can't fix.
post #2995 of 3209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Drogo View Post

And here is their informative and timely reply!

The Jacket’s button stance is determined by its length in proportion to the lapels, which is in turn is determined by your torso/body measurements. As such, button stance location is not a customizable feature on our Suits

Unfortunately we are unable to rotate sleeves on our Jackets.

Should you want the “collar gap” to be reduced, you can try a reduction to your Chest measurement, but this isn’t really advised. The gap between lapel and collar is ultimately determined by the style/cut of your Suit, Lapel style/with and of course the Collar style of your Shirt you are wearing.


This highlights a problem we found when using Asian suit factories. If you want an inexpensive fused or half canvas suit they are great but once you go outside the standard black pattern that's when problems arise.

 

Lowering the button stance means altering the standard pattern which means pulling the jacket out of the production line and having the jacket made individually. The first issue is that you need to have someone available in the factory that has the skills to do this and that's not always the case. If the suit is not made by machine it's going to be put together by seamstresses with only basic skills that don't extend to altering patterns. Furthermore, it adds to the manufacturing costs and the margins may not be there.

 

Rotating sleeves is the same. Unfortunately a large number of people don't carry their arms straight and it leads to the sleeve creasing. So you need to rotate the sleeves to compensate and it can be a bigger job than you may think.The machines won't do it and it really needs a tailor to do it properly. This is also why you rarely see a suit factory that makes full canvas jackets. To set a full canvas correctly needs an experienced tailor and those that can do it properly don't come cheap even in Asia.

 

I'm not real sure about the advice for fixing collar gap. It's a curse for any suitmaker just ask Tom Ford

 

 

 

 

It's normally caused by the customers upper torso measurements being very different to the standard pattern. It can be prevented by accurate measurements of the shoulders, the back width between the shoulder blades (which unfortunately is a measurements many people find difficult) and the overall back length of the jacket. It can sometimes be difficult to prevent in a customers first suit and if the suit is factory made, it again requires the suit to be pulled from the production line and serviced individually by an experienced tailor.

 

To fix it normally involves detaching and reshaping the collar and removing some fabric from the upper back of the suit. This can be a time consuming alteration and cost anywhere between $100-$150. I'm not sure how reducing the chest measurement will help.

 

We had a customer who had a noticeable collar gap in his first suit. We helped him with the alteration and obtaining more accurate measurements. With his second suit we were able to discuss the issue with the tailor and sent photographs of the first jacket. With this information and the new measurements the tailors were able to fix the problem and the second suit fitted perfectly.

 

As I said, for an inexpensive fused suit made to a standard block pattern suit factories are fine and we use them for the small amount of the cheaper fused suits we sell.However, if you need to customise the in house pattern further you really need to use an experienced tailor.

post #2996 of 3209
That was an awesome and informative reply. As I'm sill learning a lot about suits, the information you revealed was enlightening. Many thanks. smile.gif

Regarding collar gap, I had a thought and made some observations. I think the SHIRT COLLAR is just as much to blame as the JACKET LAPEL. As you can see in the photos I posted of myself, I selected Indochino's medium point collar, which is probably their most versatile and well-rounded option. So you would expect their suits lapels to, well, follow suit based on this oft-ordered collar style. wink.gif And yet there's pronounced collar gap.

Now, having done some photo hunting, it seems that small collars will easily fall pray to collar gap, and no jacket will be able to complement the lines of the collar.

Here's a nice example of a very small shirt collar that results in huge collar gap:

4b70d0e3_chace-crawford-dolce-gabbana-suit-2010-golden-globes2.jpeg

There's just nothing a jacket can do to save that shirt collar.

Don't we need longer/broader shirt collar "wings" that actually reach out and kiss the edges of the suit lapels? Indochino does offer smaller collar options but those will be even more guilty of collar gap than their more traditional collar styles! And with button-down collars pinning down the shirt collar "wings", they won't come anywhere close to kissing the jacket lapel and following the lines!
post #2997 of 3209

I think that you may have the wrong idea of what "collar gap" means. It's the space between an ill-fitting jacket collar and a shirt collar. It's not the space between the shirt collar points and the jacket lapels.

post #2998 of 3209
Am I getting the wrong impression? I learned about "collar gap" from the following link: http://putthison.com/post/7215023321/collar-gaps-shoulder-divots-an-explanation

The photo of Kanye West shows what that author is calling "collar gap".

What would be the technical term for the "space between the shirt collar points and jacket lapels"? And is that space a severe issue or is it acceptable?
post #2999 of 3209
Collar gap describes the distance between the jacket collar and the shirt collar on your neck - like in that photo of Tom Ford above. It's most noticeable on photos that are taking at a side angle. The photo you showed doesn't really show a collar gap. It's just small, rather narrow shirt collar with a skinny tie and what seems like a narrow shawl collar. Not necessarily a bad look and I can't really see a collar gap there.

The link you quoted above is interesting, one of the photos used is from Indochino's website. Actually, the collar gap is not that visible on the model for me, but the pulling around the top button is something you will often see on Indochino's models.

Edit: On West's suit there is a collar gap (maybe due to his posture on the pic), but it's not the same as on the photo you posted. It's not the distance between the point of the collar to the lapel, but the space as described above.

Edit 2: What VinnyMac said.
Edited by LorenzL - 2/17/13 at 6:49am
post #3000 of 3209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Drogo View Post

Am I getting the wrong impression? I learned about "collar gap" from the following link: http://putthison.com/post/7215023321/collar-gaps-shoulder-divots-an-explanation

The photo of Kanye West shows what that author is calling "collar gap".

What would be the technical term for the "space between the shirt collar points and jacket lapels"? And is that space a severe issue or is it acceptable?

From that article:
Quote:
(One note: some people use the phrase “collar gap” to describe the space between the blades of a shirt collar - the place where the tie knot goes. That’s not what we’re talking about here.)
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