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post #46 of 101
I find the wiki entry for "Chinaman's Chance" quite interesting also. It quickly summarizes the paradigm of life for the Chinese immigrants of the time:

Quote:
Someone with a Chinaman's chance has no chance at all.

The "devolved" slang phrase: "Chinaman's Chance"; meaning "a slim chance to make it".

The original proper phrase is: "Chinaman's Chance in Hell."

The historical context of the phrase comes from the old railroad and Goldrush days of pre-California, where many Chinese came to work as laborers for the First Transcontinental Railroad, especially the Central Pacific Railroad. In this employ, they were sought out for the demanding and dangerous jobs involving explosives, often for half the pay of the Irish workers. Yet the Chinese had to pay additional and higher taxes, could not testify in court against violence against them, were denied citizenship, and could be forced from profitable property. The use and "devolution" of the slang phrase "Chinaman's Chance in Hell," into "Chinaman's Chance," resulted, ending up as an insult to Chinese people not necessarily as its original intention, but as a reflection of the callous attitude towards the lives of Chinese immigrant workers.
post #47 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal2NYC View Post
I've always thought tracing American "ancestry" back in this day and age a bit contrived. Okay, so chances are that someone you never met or who died when you were 2 years old moved to the U.S. in the early 19th century. How does that have an affect on how you live your life now or what you would identify as? It's something that you should be "proud" of or make an associate claim to? To me it just seems like a phony excuse for people to make themselves seem more interesting.
Well, its not like the moment I meet someone at a party I announce my racial heritage or family history in order to impress them. I don't think most people care much these days. OTOH, if you are interested, learning the story of where your ancestors came from can be rewarding and inspirational. My life is one of kingly ease and luxury compared to what they endured to come to the US and make a new life for themselves. If nothing else it makes me extremely grateful for what I have, rather than proud of something I can't change. I get your point and agree that who we are is not defined by where we came from so much as what we do. But it's a bit cynical to suggest that anyone who enjoys learning about his family does so only to gratify his pride or pad a shallow self-identity.
post #48 of 101
post #49 of 101
My mom is adopted, so I really don't know anything about her family other than the adoptive one (doesn't really count when doing genealogy). My father's side are all Ashkenazi Jews. Both paternal grandparents and two of my paternal great-grandparents were born in the USA. We got out of Europe even before WWI thank goodness! My grandmother's mother was born in Austria, but her family was originally from what is now Hungary. My grandmother's father's parents were from Germany. My paternal grandfather's father was from Prussia and his mother's parents were from Poland and Germany. I found much of this information recently by looking at old census records online.

I participated in the Natural Geographic Genographic Project. Check it out on https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/ I sent in a buccal swab and had my DNA tested (initally Y-chromosome markers) and was found to be a member of haplogroup J. It was later confirmed as subclade J1. It is a rare haplogroup in Europe except among Jews. It is common among Arabs, Samaritans and other Semitic peoples. I later had more Y-chromosome markers tested through Family Tree DNA (University of Arizona) who does the lab work for National Geographic. Almost all of my close markers are other Jews. I also had my mt-DNA tested to get some idea of were I come from on my mother's side. Unfortunately, mt-DNA is less specific. My mt-DNA haplogroup is H; the most common in the world. I had a subclade test done and am H7 which is fairly rare. There are not enough people in the subclade to determine where we might be from at this point. Hopefully as more people are tested, there will be more information.
post #50 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpeirpont View Post
Blah, Blah, Blah.
Second time? What was the other? I never manipulated I put forth my honest opinion. I was raised with it being a negative word, I never heard it used derisively so why would I assume the Chinese take issue with it, when Chinese family members go the name. Why do you continually compare things that are n9ot alike? Batty boy is an insult there Chinamon isn't. You can take issue with the term, right fully, but comparing it outright insults makes you seem manipulative.
Your problem is your not from place but feel the authority to speak on how they communicate, instead of realizing it doesn't matter what you think you likely understand little about their culture. But it is crazy some white South African is trying to school me in racial issues.


Your opinion is always heavily slanted when people compare a racial term vs another which speaks to your ancestry. You think Chinaman and white trash is acceptable, your excuse is that everyone in your hood says it. I think everyone has established that just because a word is commonplace, does not make it right to use it, no matter where you're from. People might not even mean a word in a bad way when they say it just because everyone always uses it, but they don't look reflexively at the use of the word and consider that it actually is offensive. I don't even care, it's just that I've seen you get up in arms about racial shit so I just thought I'd offer my opinion.


A) Crazy south african. And I'm prejudice?
B) I left South Africa at a fairly young age, and I think I'm fairly aware of racial issues exactly because I'm from a place where it was quite a topic. I think you're full of shit but whatever.
post #51 of 101
I think it is interesting to know about where you came from. I am Scots on my father's side and Irish on my mother's. Boring, at least here. Our research has turned up some interesting stuff, such as the war records of my two grandfathers. We also found the letters sent to and from my father in WWII in the Pacific. My great-great-grandfather died in a mining collapse, and we found the records of the inquest. Very few famous people, but we have uncovered tenuous links from my wife to Thomas Hardy and from my mother to famous Australian rebel Peter Lalor. Perhaps the biggest buzz was when we were wandering around the Abbey at Jedburgh, Scotland and accidentally discovered my great-great-great-grandfather's gravestone. Had we not known a bit about the family history, we would have walked by it, oblivious.
post #52 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by California Dreamer View Post
I think it is interesting to know about where you came from. I am Scots on my father's side and Irish on my mother's. Boring, at least here.

Our research has turned up some interesting stuff, such as the war records of my two grandfathers. We also found the letters sent to and from my father in WWII in the Pacific. My great-great-grandfather died in a mining collapse, and we found the records of the inquest.

Very few famous people, but we have uncovered tenuous links from my wife to Thomas Hardy and from my mother to famous Australian rebel Peter Lalor.

Perhaps the biggest buzz was when we were wandering around the Abbey at Jedburgh, Scotland and accidentally discovered my great-great-great-grandfather's gravestone. Had we not known a bit about the family history, we would have walked by it, oblivious.


Old letters can be pretty interesting. The rest of my family is going to France in March and will be doing a day trip to Claremont where we're originally from. I haven't been in a few years and unfortunately I'll miss it this year.
post #53 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violinist View Post
Your opinion is always heavily slanted when people compare a racial term vs another which speaks to your ancestry. You think Chinaman and white trash is acceptable, your excuse is that everyone in your hood says it. I think everyone has established that just because a word is commonplace, does not make it right to use it, no matter where you're from. People might not even mean a word in a bad way when they say it just because everyone always uses it, but they don't look reflexively at the use of the word and consider that it actually is offensive. I don't even care, it's just that I've seen you get up in arms about racial shit so I just thought I'd offer my opinion.


A) Crazy south african. And I'm prejudice?
B) I left South Africa at a fairly young age, and I think I'm fairly aware of racial issues exactly because I'm from a place where it was quite a topic. I think you're full of shit but whatever.

Batty boy is apart of my ancestry? I'm not biased, you are, which is why you like to compare unlike terms.
White trash is just acceptable to use as you assuming I am from the "hood" because I'm Black. I do not remember what we were comparing white trash to, to be honest. But many rag on ghetto Blacks without you jumping in their face, so your defense of them is a little disingenuous or reflects your bias.
post #54 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpeirpont View Post
Batty boy is apart of my ancestry? I'm not biased, you are, which is why you like to compare unlike terms.
White trash is just acceptable to use as you assuming I am from the "hood" because I'm Black. I do not remember what we were comparing white trash to, to be honest. But many rag on ghetto Blacks without you jumping in their face, so your defense of them is a little disingenuous or reflects your bias.

You did say you spent a lot of time around Jamaicans.
post #55 of 101
Good posts, Amerikajinda, thanks.
I thought you were Korean.
post #56 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by amerikajinda View Post
On 1998-04-09, television sitcom show Seinfeld aired an episode in which a character referred to opium as "the Chinaman's nightcap". The episode prompted many Asian American viewers, including author Maxine Hong Kingston, to send letters of protest. In her letter, Kingston wrote that the term [Chinamon] is "equivalent to niggers for blacks and kikes for Jews". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinaman For you, from your perspective, they are not equivalents. But to a Chinese person or to a person of Asian descent, being called "Chinaman" can be every bit as hurtful as being called "Nigger" can be to a person of African descent. Both words are racial slurs, and they both appear on this list of racial ethnic slurs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs If your relative doesn't object to being called "Chinamon" and it's a term of endearment for him or her and no malice is intended whatsoever -- kind of like when black men call each other "niggers" or "niggahs" or whatever -- then by all means keep using the term when you're with that relative but we must be very careful not to use that term -- or any racial slur -- in public. Heck, I'm not even Asian but I cringe when I hear the term "Chinaman" or "Chinamon" or "Cinnamon" or whatever...
I never denied it was a hurtful term, which is why I said I'd cease using it if a Chinese person told me not to. As your articles proves it is not used nationally as used where I'm from, so it would behoove me to quit using it. Nigger and Chinaman are not the same because they have different origins and one meaning is only racist. China man from what I thought was simply a combination of two words. Anyway it is apparent that it is a slur so I will not call any Chinese person a chinaman again, so funny how ignorant one can be of the terms he is using; at least I wasn't corrected in the streets. Wkipedia could lead you to funny things. Remember 2 Live Crew http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresh_Kid_Ice
post #57 of 101
i always find it wierd that black people constantly use the word chinky eyes etc in rap songs and all, but what if chinese people constantly used nigger nose or something etc. just seems kinda wierd.
any way.....im an ashkenazy jew. my mom is from toronto and my dad is from israel. my dads side is in israel via europe. his mom is from hungary, and left after she survived aushwitz. both his grandparents were killed in the war, as of many other family members so i dont know too much about them. his dad is from warsaw,poland. but left to fight with the british or something along those lines in the war. he also later moved to israel. my moms side which lives in toronto and has been in canada for 2 generations are also from europe. my great grandfather moved here when he was young, he was born in transylvania. (wasnt a vampire). my great grandmother was i think born in austria. not 100% sure. i dont know too much of my ancestry past then.but it would be interesting to research it.
post #58 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpeirpont View Post
I never denied it was a hurtful term, which is why I said I'd cease using it if a Chinese person told me not to. As your articles proves it is not used nationally as used where I'm from, so it would behoove me to quit using it. Nigger and Chinaman are not the same because they have different origins and one meaning is only racist. China man from what I thought was simply a combination of two words. Anyway it is apparent that it is a slur so I will not call any Chinese person a chinaman again, so funny how ignorant one can be of the terms he is using; at least I wasn't corrected in the streets.

Wkipedia could lead you to funny things. Remember 2 Live Crew

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresh_Kid_Ice

I find it interesting how you say sometimes people say Chinaman and it isn't racist, but you claim Nigger is always racist. Maybe you've never heard a rap song with people calling each other 'niggas' or heard other black people calling their 'homiezz' 'niggas', but you'd never see a person from China saying 'hey whazzzup my Chinamon' to another one.

And as far as claiming that Chinaman is just putting two words together, the word Nigger comes from the Latin word for black which is niger. It's an ancient word for the color of your skin, from far before your 'forefathers' were brought over here from Africa.
post #59 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by West24 View Post
any way.....im an ashkenazy jew. my mom is from toronto and my dad is from israel. my dads side is in israel via europe. his mom is from hungary, and left after she survived aushwitz. both his grandparents were killed in the war, as of many other family members so i dont know too much about them. his dad is from warsaw,poland. but left to fight with the british or something along those lines in the war. he also later moved to israel. my moms side which lives in toronto and has been in canada for 2 generations are also from europe. my great grandfather moved here when he was young, he was born in transylvania. (wasnt a vampire). my great grandmother was i think born in austria. not 100% sure. i dont know too much of my ancestry past then.but it would be interesting to research it.

I am in the same boat as you with my father's family history. Looks like we could be related; your family is from some of the same places as mine. Unfortunately it is difficult to find out much about Jewish family histories in Europe. The Nazis destroyed most of the birth, bris, bar mitzvah and death records.
post #60 of 101
my mom is from Germany, my dad is from the top of Norway (half my gene pool has spent the last 10,000 years 400 miles above the arctic circle, hence my deep bronze skin-tone). They are both the only people in their families to have left Europe, making me (their firstborn) the first American on either side of the family tree. Funnily enough, my girlfriend is likewise her family's first America, except her whole family is straight outta Turkey.
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