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Colin Kaepernick is an a-hole - Page 5

post #61 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltskin View Post

To hear some people talk about it, the issue of police violence has been a major concern for decades and has been ignored by the general public for just as long

This does not negate what whnay said however, and what he said, is quite correct.
post #62 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by whnay. View Post

Or are wearing pig cop socks and knelling during our national anthem just adding fuel to the fire?

 

Also, just teasing out this one thing. As I mentioned earlier, I think the socks thing was pretty bad. CK would have a much better leg to stand on, if that leg wasn't covered by those stupid pig socks. The socks make him look reactive, unthoughtful, careless, not serious, etc.

 

The national anthem kneeling was provocative. It stirred emotions. It made people angry. It made people think. It made people talk. Frankly, that's the point. I don't think bringing awareness means trying to get everyone to agree with you. I don't agree with him. I wouldn't expect a protest to find universal support. But he seems to have been effective. We're talking about it? We're reflecting on the issue. We're not the only ones.

 

So, socks? Adding fuel to the fire. Kneeling during the anthem? That's different.

post #63 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by zalb916 View Post

I'm not sure how I feel yet about this new, less feisty whnay.

I very much agree with you, though. I would love to see a leader in the black community step forward that can provide a counter to BLM, which has taken the completely wrong approach and hijacked a lot of race issues. Setting aside any issues people have with Obama as president, I hope that his post-presidency can be as a leader in the black community to address issues that need serious reflection.


We all know about breast cancer, right? Do NFL players need to keep wearing pink gloves and towels in October? Do we need to keep holding those walks? When is awareness too much awareness? Aren't there some other big diseases that should get attention?

It's really a personal perspective. I think all that pink in the NFL is a cheap attempt to sell more stuff (yeah, I know some proceeds are donated) and attract a female audience. I hate all those annoying packs of women doing those walks. I'd rather see more awareness directed towards other diseases. But I don't really know anybody who's experienced breast cancer. That shapes my perspective. So, I just kinda ignore it, because it doesn't really impact me. I may not agree with the methods. I may think there are other causes that deserve attention. But I recognize that these people legitimately think there's an issue that still needs awareness.

Less feisty? Just give me a few posts!

I'm glad you brought up the women's breast cancer movement because I've felt its been an over saturated issue for some time now and I say that as someone who has had aunts deal with it. And I agree with you that the pink gloves, towels, is more a marketing ploy than anything else at this point. But at the end of the day, getting behind breast cancer awareness is not a difficult thing to do. It doesn't care about anything tied to identity other than sex. It has the potential to affect everyone regardless of your social status, race, etc. Importantly, statistically speaking it is one of the most deadly but preventable cancers that exists. And really that's at heart the point of making. Awareness allows us to look critically at the statistics and cold hard truths about breast cancer so we can collectively take steps to better inform ourselves about what to do about it.

Contrast this with what is happening now with the police debate. Awareness is heightened about an issue by one side of the debate that spends an inordinate amount of time focused on a fraction of the statistics and cold hard truths while at the same time actively ignoring vast quantities of other statistics, concepts like causation and / or exploring the root causes of violent crime associated with family problems, etc. So from the very start the issue is framed in a way that presents no reasonable path forward.

In my view what he is doing is not raising the level of awareness, its grandstanding.
post #64 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post


This does not negate what whnay said however, and what he said, is quite correct.


nope it's not.

 

while it's true that news outlets have made this a story for some time, the NFL and various sports media are a completely different platform. even if there is significant overlap in viewership/readership/whathaveyou (and that's not something i would take for granted at all) the context is so different as to have the potential to reframe the message significantly. 

 

oh and public protests are - by definition - grandstanding. 

post #65 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by double00 View Post


nope it's not.

while it's true that news outlets have made this a story for some time, the NFL and various sports media are a completely different platform. even if there is significant overlap in viewership/readership/whathaveyou (and that's not something i would take for granted at all) the context is so different as to have the potential to reframe the message significantly. 

oh and public protests are - by definition - grandstanding. 

What whnay said that rumple was replying to is not correct? Let's just look and let the interested reader decide if you're just disagreeing with me to disagree or if you have a point. Here's what rumple highlighted and responded to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by whnay. View Post

The issue of police violence has been a non stop headline for over a year, during the summer it was the biggest issue debated in the news, online and around the water cooler.

You really feel this statement is incorrect? Okay, have at it then as that's just stupid to argue with that statement.
post #66 of 107
Unfortunately for double00, in just a few short posts he has demonstrated to be someone who doesn't really give a shit about the issue. If he did, he'd actually have something interesting or thought provoking to say.
post #67 of 107

what's with you?

 

lots of people don't watch the news. agree or disagree?

 

lots of people watch football. agree? disagree?

 

fuck me you're obtuse. his *point* is that Kaep is rehashing played out news for the sake of self-aggrandizement.

 

or it could be that he's bringing the issue to a potentially different audience in a different way.

post #68 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by whnay. View Post

Unfortunately for double00, in just a few short posts he has demonstrated to be someone who doesn't really give a shit about the issue. If he did, he'd actually have something interesting or thought provoking to say.


WHAT SOCKS ARE YOU WEARING? 

post #69 of 107
You are the one being obtuse.

What percentage of the population (black or otherwise) in this country doesn't know the name Eric Garner, Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown?

What percentage of the population doesn't know that multiple cops got gunned down after a BLM rally in Dallas? And without googling for it, can you fucking even name one of the victims?
post #70 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by whnay. View Post


Less feisty? Just give me a few posts!

I'm glad you brought up the women's breast cancer movement because I've felt its been an over saturated issue for some time now and I say that as someone who has had aunts deal with it. And I agree with you that the pink gloves, towels, is more a marketing ploy than anything else at this point. But at the end of the day, getting behind breast cancer awareness is not a difficult thing to do. It doesn't care about anything tied to identity other than sex. It has the potential to affect everyone regardless of your social status, race, etc. Importantly, statistically speaking it is one of the most deadly but preventable cancers that exists. And really that's at heart the point of making. Awareness allows us to look critically at the statistics and cold hard truths about breast cancer so we can collectively take steps to better inform ourselves about what to do about it.

Contrast this with what is happening now with the police debate. Awareness is heightened about an issue by one side of the debate that spends an inordinate amount of time focused on a fraction of the statistics and cold hard truths while at the same time actively ignoring vast quantities of other statistics, concepts like causation and / or exploring the root causes of violent crime associated with family problems, etc. So from the very start the issue is framed in a way that presents no reasonable path forward.

In my view what he is doing is not raising the level of awareness, its grandstanding.

 

Totally fair way to distinguish breast cancer from the police issue. It's certainly not a perfect analogy, as basically everybody is anti-cancer. 

 

I don't know if I'd characterize what he's doing as "grandstanding," though. His action initially was not even noticeable. He did it for several games before anybody realized. He made no effort to publicize himself. That's not grandstanding. Now that he's been "outed" as a kneeler, he's not making some big thing about it. He isn't going to the press to talk about it. He isn't penning essays. He isn't making some spectacle to bring attention to himself. He's doing what is a fairly subtle gesture that seems to provoke response.

post #71 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by zalb916 View Post

Totally fair way to distinguish breast cancer from the police issue. It's certainly not a perfect analogy, as basically everybody is anti-cancer. 

I don't know if I'd characterize what he's doing as "grandstanding," though. His action initially was not even noticeable. He did it for several games before anybody realized. He made no effort to publicize himself. That's not grandstanding. Now that he's been "outed" as a kneeler, he's not making some big thing about it. He isn't going to the press to talk about it. He isn't penning essays. He isn't making some spectacle to bring attention to himself. He's doing what is a fairly subtle gesture that seems to provoke response.
Fair enough Z but I don't believe we are close to having the chapter written on CKs impact (positive or negative) on this issue. Like I said he can do whatever he wants and I do applaud him from putting his money behind it.

But ask yourself, what if CK came out before the season and held a press conference and said..."Police brutality and violence is a serious issue in this country and I cannot stand by while people are gunned down in the streets by the people that are supposed to protect them. In an effort for us to better understand the problem I'm donating [insert the # or % here] to causes that I believe are leading the effort to find a solution and I would strongly encourage others to do the same. Oh and I'm auctioning off the pig socks and donating the proceeds to a charity that provides support for families of dead officers."
post #72 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by whnay. View Post

You are the one being obtuse.

What percentage of the population (black or otherwise) in this country doesn't know the name Eric Garner, Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown?

What percentage of the population doesn't know that multiple cops got gunned down after a BLM rally in Dallas? And without googling for it, can you fucking even name one of the victims?

 

the thread is about Kaep. read the title if you don't care to take my word for it.

 

so far you've made it about black responsibility and breast cancer. i'm not dancing to your tune and i suspect that's an irritant for you. 

 

there are lots and lots and lots of wrong (read: unconstructive, counterproductive or even destructive) ways to address race. there really is no one *right* way. anybody who says they have it figured out is a psychopath.

post #73 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by whnay. View Post

But ask yourself, what if CK came out before the season and held a press conference and said..."Police brutality and violence is a serious issue in this country and I cannot stand by while people are gunned down in the streets by the people that are supposed to protect them. In an effort for us to better understand the problem I'm donating [insert the # or % here] to causes that I believe are leading the effort to find a solution and I would strongly encourage others to do the same. Oh and I'm auctioning off the pig socks and donating the proceeds to a charity that provide support for families of dead officers."

 

This would actually be pretty awesome. Seriously. Like really awesome.

 

I thought Michael Jordan did pretty well:

 

“I was raised by parents who taught me to love and respect people regardless of their race or background, so I am saddened and frustrated by the divisive rhetoric and racial tensions that seem to be getting worse as of late. I know this country is better than that, and I can no longer stay silent. We need to find solutions that ensure people of color receive fair and equal treatment AND that police officers – who put their lives on the line every day to protect us all – are respected and supported.

 

“Over the past three decades I have seen up close the dedication of the law enforcement officers who protect me and my family. I have the greatest respect for their sacrifice and service. I also recognize that for many people of color their experiences with law enforcement have been different than mine. I have decided to speak out in the hope that we can come together as Americans, and through peaceful dialogue and education, achieve constructive change.

 

“To support that effort, I am making contributions of $1 million each to two organizations, the International Association of Chiefs of Police’s newly established Institute for Community-Police Relations and the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. The Institute for Community-Police Relations’ policy and oversight work is focused on building trust and promoting best practices in community policing. My donation to the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, the nation’s oldest civil rights law organization, will support its ongoing work in support of reforms that will build trust and respect between communities and law enforcement. Although I know these contributions alone are not enough to solve the problem, I hope the resources will help both organizations make a positive difference.

 

“We are privileged to live in the world’s greatest country – a country that has provided my family and me the greatest of opportunities. The problems we face didn’t happen overnight and they won’t be solved tomorrow, but if we all work together, we can foster greater understanding, positive change and create a more peaceful world for ourselves, our children, our families and our communities.”

post #74 of 107
Yeah I thought that was particularly exceptional. His views along with Jerry Rice, Shaq and Charles Barkley really stand out for me. It's a shame how little precious air time they get relative to the folks that are kneeling.
post #75 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by double00 View Post

the thread is about Kaep. read the title if you don't care to take my word for it.

so far you've made it about black responsibility and breast cancer. i'm not dancing to your tune and i suspect that's an irritant for you. 

there are lots and lots and lots of wrong (read: unconstructive, counterproductive or even destructive) ways to address race. there really is no one *right* way. anybody who says they have it figured out is a psychopath.
Yep you win double, I am irritated at you. I hope you accomplished what you wanted out of this conversation. I can say I am no closer to understanding how you feel about the CK situation than when I entered this thread which I think is a missed opportunity but life goes on.

Now please continue your trolling efforts while the rest of us try to have a reasonable discussion.
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