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What is wrong with Brioni? - Page 5

post #61 of 134
Admittedly haven't had time to read through the whole thread. Just some quick thoughts, to what I think is probably some "pearl clutching" (not 100% sure what that term means in this context) and overly charitable views of O'Shea's move:

O'Shea is obviously going for a more fashion forward crowd. For guys who like that kind of stuff, you have to admit it's also a little derivative. Like "hey metal iconography is really hot in fashion right now, let's do an ad campaign with Metallica." The last collection looks like it was inspired by pimps from a bad '90s film, which also falls into this whole "low brow/ low fashion" aesthetic that's really popular with Vetements, Gosha, Hedi SLP, etc. Is that really to be celebrated? Not just in terms of following the crowd, but even just that whole shift in general?

This all seems like a huge gamble.

First, Brioni is first and foremost a tailored clothing company. And the market they're going after doesn't really wear tailored clothing (traditional or otherwise). Even O'Shea himself is rarely pictured in a tailored jacket, and he looks like he's the company model right now for the sort of customer they're after.

Second, if they're able to sell tailored clothing to a more fashion forward audience, how long can that last? And what happens when that crowd leaves that for the next trend? Unlike all the other companies they're competing with, they have less aesthetic mobility (unless they're really just going to become a design house).

Third, why hire O'Shea? Whether you support the fashion forward shift or not, he seems like a weird pick. He doesn't have the design chops or vision to be truly exciting to anyone interested in fashion. And his taste is going to be considered awful for anyone with more traditional sensibilities. Brioni presumably has a huge budget; why couldn't they have gone with a stronger creative director? Is it just because O'Shea, as a person, is more likely to generate press?
post #62 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viral View Post

Guys.....all this is interesting and perhaps warrants more insight , But why didn't Brioni check with their customers before making any changes??? That's the $1,000,000.00 question! WHY??????

It was even mandated by a few posters above....WHY?????

Now in: video of a StyFoDude giving Brioni business advice

post #63 of 134
They went with O'Shea because he was a big success a My Theresa and presumably has some talent for picking saleable items.

Also, they probably figure, 'well its worth the risk to try and upsize (al la other big brand upsizes)'. "If it goes pearshape, we can always refocus on the core middle aged gentlemen clientele - they'll come back if the style goes back to what they like".

Of course the real reason why Brioni is not flourishing its too bloody expensive for what you get.
post #64 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzmart View Post

They went with O'Shea because he was a big success a My Theresa and presumably has some talent for picking saleable items.

Also, they probably figure, 'well its worth the risk to try and upsize (al la other big brand upsizes)'. "If it goes pearshape, we can always refocus on the core middle aged gentlemen clientele - they'll come back if the style goes back to what they like".

Of course the real reason why Brioni is not flourishing its too bloody expensive for what you get.

Yes, but for womenswear no?

I'm not saying he isn't skilled. I'm saying it seems like they could have picked a better creative director. Even if were a matter of choosing sellable items, ideally it would be someone with experience in design or even just men's clothing.

I imagine this shift could turn off a lot of their core customers. Of all the fashion-forward focuses they could have taken, pimp-inspired, Vetements-led trends seems like the worst one to set alongside their traditional offerings. Something more minimalist and luxury-focused (a la Lemaire or something) feels like it would have been a lot more compatible.
post #65 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquafortis View Post

2. Ford was trained as a designer at one of the best design schools (Parsons in NYC) anywhere.

I thought he was studying architecture, but applied for fashion designer jobs after graduation because he liked it better. I've seen him say this in interviews.
post #66 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by JubeiSpiegel View Post


I thought he was studying architecture, but applied for fashion designer jobs after graduation because he liked it better. I've seen him say this in interviews.

 

He did study architecture at Parsons. However, the point is that he was formally trained in a high level of design thinking - this gives one the ability to approach design problems in a sophisticated way. He obviously has a knack for working with people, business sense, and style/fashion.

post #67 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post
 

The Brioni brand was built on fashion and celebrity. It was the first brand to put on a menswear runway show, unheard of in the 50s, and it actively courted movie stars and made it's name on glamor and red carpet. It's a brand that, much like Gucci, lost much of it's luster in its latter years, mostly due to the placement in high end stores as a "mature" man's brand, and the buying by retailers for that customer. If you were in a Neiman Marcus, say, 5-10 years ago, you'd imagine that the target customer was Arnold Palmer, who, whille a great golfer in his day, was hardly a glamorous figure in the 00s.

 

I agree with Parisian Gentleman's assessment to focus on tailored looks, but I also think that differentiating itself from something like Kiton is important. It simply has a very different DNA than the other brands he mentions (Isaia, Kiton, Cifonelli). It's DNA is much closer to that of Tom Ford, and maybe some Tom Ford style and level of marketing would bring back that "sexiness" that is core to Brioni.

 

I am not sure of the new logo, and I agree that the red logo shown earlier here may be a better match.

 

Celebrity outreach is also very important to all of these brands (I get emails from Isaia about who was spotted wearing Isaia in what show, daily), and Brioni clearly needs to really figure out the right guys to target. The Metallica thing is silly. However, I could see a bunch of guys who would make great Brioni models, and who are much more in tune with the DNA of Brioni than are Metallica. Here would be a few of my suggestions, who span at least two generations, but all of whom own an image of a mature roguishness and/or a type of "sexiness" that is appealing to men. IMO, anyone younger or younger looking than say, 40, would probably not work. I really see their DNA as more Hollywood, and less rock and roll: Sean Connery, Jack Nicholson, Bradley Cooper, George Clooney, Russell Crowe, Liam Neeson, Hugh Jackman, Michael Fassbender, Idris Elba, Ewan McGregor.

 

Re. "heavily tattoo'ed", that's just par for the course in the clothing business these days, and has no connotations, one way or the other. Every second designer has full sleeves and tattoos up to their neck. I used to be the only non-tatted guy in MMA, but now I'm also the only non-tatted up dude at many tradeshows.

 

 

Congrats for continued that way. 

post #68 of 134
"The mood of the '70s I find to be the most exciting in terms of where I live mentally."

I think that just about sums it up...UGH. 
[/quote]

He omitted any reference to Cocaine

I remember the 70s, but I wore Chipp.
post #69 of 134

Prior to Justin O'Shea, the creative director was Brendan Mullane. When he took over in 2012, his designs were fashion forward and his last collection was really out there.  As the Parisian gent pointed out sales went south. So Brioni axed him and intended to go back to pre 2012 with Justin O'Shea.  

 

O'Shea's interpretation of the of pre 2012 was to bring back a suit model from their archives.  Which is a great idea.  However he failed in his interpretation when he decided to cheapen the construction by creating the first every fused suit by Brioni.  If you do not believe me, go over to Neiman Marcus and ask for the continental suit.  Pinch the lapel and try to pull apart if it does, you will unglue it! They chose to do this to lower the entry price point.. from $6k to $5k.  What a savings.. I guess the millennial have a are adverse to numbers starting with 6. 

 

I don't know about you, but fused and Brioni should not be in the same sentence.  

post #70 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

Recent book review by His Eminence the RJMan that might be of interest to this thread:

http://nomanwalksalone.tumblr.com/post/144156914481/book-review-gaetano-savini-the-man-was-brioni

Thanks, unbel. Well done, RJMan! That's a shot across the bow of the Brioni mystique.

P. S., I liked your essay on the Milanese silhouette and ensembles.
Edited by Testudo_Aubreii - 8/3/16 at 5:24pm
post #71 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by FattoAMano View Post
 

Prior to Justin O'Shea, the creative director was Brendan Mullane. When he took over in 2012, his designs were fashion forward and his last collection was really out there.  As the Parisian gent pointed out sales went south. So Brioni axed him and intended to go back to pre 2012 with Justin O'Shea.  

 

O'Shea's interpretation of the of pre 2012 was to bring back a suit model from their archives.  Which is a great idea.  However he failed in his interpretation when he decided to cheapen the construction by creating the first every fused suit by Brioni.  If you do not believe me, go over to Neiman Marcus and ask for the continental suit.  Pinch the lapel and try to pull apart if it does, you will unglue it! They chose to do this to lower the entry price point.. from $6k to $5k.  What a savings.. I guess the millennial have a are adverse to numbers starting with 6. 

 

I don't know about you, but fused and Brioni should not be in the same sentence.  

 

Speaks volumes. I am sure that Brioni customers (or the people that should still be their customers) would be happy to pay an extra $1K to avoid that garbage.


Edited by Dandy Wonka - 8/3/16 at 11:44pm
post #72 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by FattoAMano View Post

Prior to Justin O'Shea, the creative director was Brendan Mullane. When he took over in 2012, his designs were fashion forward and his last collection was really out there.  As the Parisian gent pointed out sales went south. So Brioni axed him and intended to go back to pre 2012 with Justin O'Shea.  

O'Shea's interpretation of the of pre 2012 was to bring back a suit model from their archives.  Which is a great idea.  However he failed in his interpretation when he decided to cheapen the construction by creating the first every fused suit by Brioni.  If you do not believe me, go over to Neiman Marcus and ask for the continental suit.  Pinch the lapel and try to pull apart if it does, you will unglue it! They chose to do this to lower the entry price point.. from $6k to $5k.  What a savings.. I guess the millennial have a are adverse to numbers starting with 6. 

I don't know about you, but fused and Brioni should not be in the same sentence.  

O'Shea only started working at Brioni this April. He debuted his first collection three weeks ago in Paris and it's not set to hit stores until SS17. Whatever is at NM probably doesn't have anything to do with him.
post #73 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

O'Shea only started working at Brioni this April. He debuted his first collection three weeks ago in Paris and it's not set to hit stores until SS17. Whatever is at NM probably doesn't have anything to do with him.

Encouraging. The Metallica thing is a misstep but there is something about O'Shea that is quite promising and astute - maybe the atypical background.
post #74 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

O'Shea only started working at Brioni this April. He debuted his first collection three weeks ago in Paris and it's not set to hit stores until SS17. Whatever is at NM probably doesn't have anything to do with him.

Are you sure? On the NM website the continental models are from the 'Paris One Collection'.

Looks like they're stilling selling their regular, handmade models (with higher retail than the continental fits).
post #75 of 134

So, the summary is that some Brioni fans are getting upset because Brioni is betraying them by going back to its authentically glamorous, over-the-top and tasteless roots.

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