or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › General › Current Events, Power and Money › Dallas Police Shot
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Dallas Police Shot - Page 10

post #136 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

The USA is an undeniable outlier for western nations when it comes to police killings, it is a typically American problem and many factors may contribute:
.

"Suicide by cop" is almost uniquely American. It's fascinating that the knowledge of how American cops will engage with threats and eventually kill someone has permeated so deeply into the culture that mentally ill people use it as a controlled form of suicide.
post #137 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post

"Suicide by cop" is almost uniquely American. It's fascinating that the knowledge of how American cops will engage with threats and eventually kill someone has permeated so deeply into the culture that mentally ill people use it as a controlled form of suicide.

Yeah, I forgot about that, I only learned about that one when going to the USA even though I am sure there are some cases everywhere. Can you imagine someone trying suicide by cop in Britain?
post #138 of 146
I certainly agree with a lot of both sides' arguments, but it's incredibly frustrating when something this complex gets turned into a with us or against us type of thing.

Yes, there are problems with BLM. My first encounter with them with a "die in" at the Chicago pride parade last year. It seemed idiotic and pointless to disrupt and protest that event. A lot of what they do alienates people sympathetic to the cause.

But that doesn't mean there isn't a problem with the perception of the police by the citizens they are meant to serve. This is reality, not some sort of political theory intellectual circle jerk. If we are living in a society where a large segment of the population is scared of the police, it's a problem. (And this isn't a new problem.)

Poorer neighborhoods are policed completely differently from your typical UMC suburb. I've had a few experiences where I've needed police, or witnessed situations that have needed police, and the response was a joke. No wonder people in those neighborhoods don't trust police. They're not there when you need them.

There needs to be meaningful discussion and compromise. Playing armchair detective doesn't solve anything. Looking for "gotchas" (on either side) doesn't solve anything.
post #139 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Veen View Post

... and where does the state's power emanate from?

The barrel of a gun.
post #140 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Veen View Post

But that doesn't mean there isn't a problem with the perception of the police by the citizens they are meant to serve. This is reality, not some sort of political theory intellectual circle jerk. If we are living in a society where a large segment of the population is scared of the police, it's a problem. (And this isn't a new problem.)

 

indeed. why fuss with intellect when moral outrage is so much easier and more immediately gratifying?

post #141 of 146
Arguing politics on the internet is an intellectual circle jerk. Ain't know two ways about it. We're all real heroes doing the Lord's work changing peoples' minds.

Edit: Let me put it another way. If all you're getting from my posts is moral outrage, I don't know what to tell you. It's easy to do that when you selectively quote and respond to only the things you want to.

I was asked if I had any experience being in a life threatening situation, and told that if I wasn't, I didn't have a complete perspective on the issue. Flip that around. If you haven't lived in a poorer neighborhood and dealt with police in that environment (especially when you're in a situation where you feel threatened), then you don't have a complete perspective on the issue. It is not manufactured moral outrage if you're the one living it. It is not a statistical drop in the bucket if you're the one living it. And what I've experienced and witnessed is peanuts compared to people who have grown up in an environment like this.
Edited by Van Veen - 7/12/16 at 8:19pm
post #142 of 146
BLM is a communist front, it has no concern for the actual lives of black people.
post #143 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Veen View Post

fundamentally the problem comes down to whether or not the citizens, from whom the police's power is derived, trust those that they've chartered to "protect and serve" their communities.

this is the meat of your issue, no? so no more accusations of cherry picking por favor.

 

imo this is a misreading of how police power works. the US Constitution - not the citizenry - grants states the power to regulate general health safety and welfare of their territories/populaces. this is the basis of law enforcement, land use and zoning regulations, etc etc. that's not political science circle jerk nonsense. that is the pragmatic reality.

 

police power. with me so far?

 

the rub is that "general health safety and welfare" ( aka The Greater Good) is essentially undefined. as is the way in which force is applied. 

 

one could argue that The Greater Good is fundamentally a non-human value, and that anything the state does to preserve The Greater Good is an act of violence against human sensibility (@Harold falcon). you can see this in non-lethal terms in the way that a government can forcibly take somebody's property via eminent domain (or even zone away property value and rights without having to provide compensation whatsoever). and yet the courts have time and again basically upheld the ability of the state to infringe on individual liberties for the sake of the general good... 

 

the issue is clearly not as simple as "cops amok". there are poor communities that don't have the kind of antagonistic relationship with law enforcement that others seem to have. the same can be said of minority communities. there are places where wealthy and powerful live cheek-by-jowl with the have nots. through all of these different contexts, can it be said that there is truly a systemic problem with abuse of power? i doubt that there is. statistics? you're writing about fractions of fractions.

 

understanding how governance works is a good place to start. so is understanding how the media works. how activists operate. how local culture can interact with and rub up against state agents. police culture. public administrators. by the time you get to the traffic stop the stage has already been set. 


Edited by double00 - 7/13/16 at 3:32pm
post #144 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by double00 View Post

can it be said that there is truly a systemic problem with abuse of power? i doubt that there is. statistics? you're writing about fractions of fractions.

The answer is NO, as to the BLM shading of the question.

Good post, in today's climate, most will read into it an "us or them" type of thing. My sympathies are known.
post #145 of 146
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/gunman-gregarious-army-career-ended-disgrace-40598719

According to reports, the killer was a pretty normal guy until he was kicked out of the military for...stealing panties... His family says he had a long-term crush on the woman but she apparently regarded them as "just friends" and had started screwing someone else. As if we needed another illustration about why women in the military is a bad idea.

Also, as to whether he saw combat, the article says he had a reputation as being a poor soldier and a bad shot and his unit was mostly confined to the base. Their big accomplishment in Afghanistan was building a gym for the special forces to use.
post #146 of 146
Was Alton Sterling the victim of a busy, brutal news cycle?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/07/15/alton-sterling-funeral-victims-busy-brutal-violent-news-week/87140350/

This is despicable! American hero and martyr Alton Sterling who was brutally executed by racist White Police, has been pushed off the top of the news cycle.

People seem to care more about the victims in Nice and the Turkey Coup, a crappy Muslim country 1/2 way around the world, than they do about the martyr Sterling.

The poor sweetiies of BLM are irate that Alton has been pushed from the top of the heap,

Here's a featured tweet from the very liberal USA Today story,

Franklin Omar
@LarryKingfisher

Don't #PrayForNice we are fighting a civil war against whites. #BLM


Read Franklin's tweet stream ( accessible via the story ). It's priceless and hilarious.
Edited by rnoldh - 7/15/16 at 4:22pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Current Events, Power and Money
Styleforum › Forums › General › Current Events, Power and Money › Dallas Police Shot