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Brexit - Page 10

post #136 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roycru View Post

Those fortunate enough to live in Democracies should accept that democracy works, even when the other side wins.

Representative democracy—with checks and balances—works. Direct democracy is not the same.
post #137 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkshire pud View Post

H
Q: How much steel does the British car industry import from the EU?
http://www.eef.org.uk/uksteel/About-the-industry/Steel-facts/Trade.htm
Quite a bit of high quality variants, which will be subject to negotiation, otherwise you will have to get them from the US or Japan. Have fun negotiating with them. Meanwhile, the U.K. Produces low quality steel for Asia, already not the best market and one that will take years to renegotiate, as Asia is a bit more protectionist than Europe.. Which leaves my point to stand, the British steel industry was already in dire straits, the uncertainty now will be the death of it. In addition, I know for a fact that BMW was looking to expand production either in the UK or on the mainland, how do you think that they will go about that process now? Lastly, car imports are the one thing that the EU has stringent rules and tariffs for.. Don't you think that Nissan et al will certainly favor expanding on the mainland and consider shrinking the UK operations to hedge the uncertainty for the coming years?
post #138 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roycru View Post

The Brexit vote, 52%-48%, is similar to the popular vote in the 2012 United States Presidential Election, which was 51%-47% (there were more than two candidates).


Some differences are that the losers in the United States didn't petition for a do over, nor did the states that voted for the losing side have referendums to leave the United States.

Elections of politicians will always be a little different than a yes/no vote though.

Politicians pander. They go one way on issue X and another on issue Y until they think they can win without having compromised too many of the things they actually stand for.

That's why the republican party in the US currently has a bunch of rich white men on one side and a bunch of poor white people on the other side (and are constantly trying to figure out how to draw in some hispanic votes too).

Many of the right-leaning businessmen don't give a shit about issues like abortion--but by taking a stand on it, they can draw in a class of voters who would otherwise be uninterested in them. It is politics.

With a yes/no vote on a major decision...it is hard to pander so much. You can still adjust your marketing and your claims of what the world will look like if your side wins...but it is not like the Leave camp could come in and say "OK, we'll leave behind Greece and Spain, but we are going to hang on to Germany and Denmark".
post #139 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Veen View Post


Representative democracy—with checks and balances—works. Direct democracy is not the same.


you can explain that to the folks who got the wood shampoo in Chicago in 68. 

 

representative democracy breeds a ruling class, not to mention lobbyist parasites. direct democracy is actually a check on representative democracy. 

post #140 of 384
I've always thought the UK has had some interesting demographics, particularly with a black population that is a fraction of the USA's population (and doesn't have quite the same history as blacks in the US). Ditto for the complete lack of a hispanic population.

Imagine how far Trump's rhetoric would go if he didn't have large blocks of people (25-30% of the country) who actively dislike him as a race.

When you replace poor urban black people with poor urban white people, then you can unite the urban and rural working class votes.

Not really sure where I am going with this, other than that, as a bunch of americans looking at UK politics, we have to recognize that some of the defining characteristics of things we associate with left vs right are simply not true across the pond.
post #141 of 384
And for further color, lets not forget that one of the big (but dubious) selling points of #leave was that they could redirect a bunch of the money that was going to the EU and send it instead to their socialized healthcare system...

Or that Nigel Farage may be anti-immigrant and anti-EU, but he is also pro-decriminalization of drugs.

You don't expect to see the US right wing wanting to spend MORE money on socialized healthcare or wanting to legalize recreational drugs.
post #142 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by otc View Post

we have to recognize that some of the defining characteristics of things we associate with left vs right are simply not true across the pond.

seems there is no real mainstream left in the US, only a relative one
post #143 of 384
Thread Starter 
I am wondering on the veracity of the reporting that has immediately developed the narrative so many Leave voters wanted to change their mind the very next morning.
post #144 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I am wondering on the veracity of the reporting that has immediately developed the narrative so many Leave voters wanted to change their mind the very next morning.

i tidied that up for you. 

 

given how badly the pre-vote reporting/polling/narrating screwed the pooch why wouldn't they continue to get it wrong? it would be hilarious if they had a referendum on the referendum only to Leave by an even wider margin. 

post #145 of 384
A lot of lying involved in answering pollsters, then when you alone in the voting booth you vote with your gut. Same thing is with polling in US. People don't like to admit that they would vote for system disruption no matter who represents it. Populus appears to be sick of Globalisation.
post #146 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by nootje View Post

http://www.eef.org.uk/uksteel/About-the-industry/Steel-facts/Trade.htm
Quite a bit of high quality variants, which will be subject to negotiation, otherwise you will have to get them from the US or Japan. Have fun negotiating with them. Meanwhile, the U.K. Produces low quality steel for Asia, already not the best market and one that will take years to renegotiate, as Asia is a bit more protectionist than Europe.. Which leaves my point to stand, the British steel industry was already in dire straits, the uncertainty now will be the death of it. In addition, I know for a fact that BMW was looking to expand production either in the UK or on the mainland, how do you think that they will go about that process now? Lastly, car imports are the one thing that the EU has stringent rules and tariffs for.. Don't you think that Nissan et al will certainly favor expanding on the mainland and consider shrinking the UK operations to hedge the uncertainty for the coming years?

Thanks for your opinion

I think we will end up semi-nationalising steel again To support British car makers and save Port Talbot, I think they will increase the government stake that has been on the table from 25%

We have seen the decline in the Yorkshire City of Sheffield over the last 40 odd years of EU shenanigans

Such a shame frown.gif
post #147 of 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by double00 View Post

you can explain that to the folks who got the wood shampoo in Chicago in 68. 

representative democracy breeds a ruling class, not to mention lobbyist parasites. direct democracy is actually a check on representative democracy. 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, but since public response was overwhelming against the protesters and with the police in 1968,* "direct democracy" in that situation would have produced the same (or worse) results. (* 71% of Americans supported the city's actions)
post #148 of 384

People yearning for freedom throughout the World have new hope after Brexit.  

Friday morning, on my way to the barber shop, I walked past this lady from Hong Kong standing in front of a statue of St. George slaying the Eurodragon.  She and her friends are hoping that the British will return to Hong Kong and bring freedom back.

(This is the corner of Wilshire Blvd and Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills, CA, USA.)

post #149 of 384
I find it quite ironic that so many leftists are suddenly pro authocratic superstate run by Germany.
post #150 of 384
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