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(What's the Story) Morning Glory: The Current State of Savile Row - Page 4

post #46 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grammaton Cleric View Post

Not sure if I agree with all this talk about Italian tailoring being at pole position now. To be clear, Italian tailoring is more popular on SF (within the very small sample set of people on this forum who actually order high-priced bespoke). As a whole, Savile Row is far larger than Italian bespoke houses. The Rake contends (and I have no reason to doubt them) that Rubinacci is the largest Italian bespoke house, and makes 800 suits / year. That's 30% smaller than A&S and Poole, and comparable in output to a Dege or Davies. After Rubinacci and Caraceni, I'm guessing the others are meaningfully smaller, while SR has 12+ tailors who punch out 300+ suits a year.

From my own experience, when I first started on SF I was (like everyone else here) fascinated by the Italians and believed that everything coming out of the Row was ill-fitting, poorly-made junk. I proceeded to try many top Italian tailors (Rubinacci, Liverano, NSM, Pirozzi), and now give all my business to two tailors on the Row (every now and then, I also order from Gordon Yao in HK).

Here are the reasons why -

Style
There's a reason why SR has existed (and thrived) for decades - it's the house style which has been refined over the years into an attractive silhouette that flatters most men. Rather than being a stilted canvas that no Instagram-hungry Pitti hero would wear, its a style that's evolved continuously and has been perfected by the Row.
Contrast that with Florentine or Neapolitan tailors, where the excessive cutaways, high-buttoning points, and unpadded shoulders only look good on a select subsection of customers. If you're a big guy with a muscular build, or if you have sloping shoulders, or if you have large hips / seat, those cuts will almost certainly not look good on you

Consistency
This is a big one. My suits from my SR tailors are ALWAYS the same. There is an amazing consistency to the output - again, in stark contrast to the Italians. Suits from Italian tailors are almost always different across iterations which can be extremely frustrating, particularly if you believe you've locked in a pattern / style that works well for you.

Customer Service
After dealing with American customers for the past century, SR tailors have a fairly good customer-facing operation in place. Communication is strong and timely, items are delivered on schedule, and trips are planned on a consistent basis. Other than a few select Italian tailors, all the Italians are awful in this regard.

Im shocked they only do 800
post #47 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grammaton Cleric View Post

From my own experience, when I first started on SF I was (like everyone else here) fascinated by the Italians and believed that everything coming out of the Row was ill-fitting, poorly-made junk. I proceeded to try many top Italian tailors (Rubinacci, Liverano, NSM, Pirozzi), and now give all my business to two tailors on the Row (every now and then, I also order from Gordon Yao in HK).

Here are the reasons why -

Style
There's a reason why SR has existed (and thrived) for decades - it's the house style which has been refined over the years into an attractive silhouette that flatters most men. Rather than being a stilted canvas that no Instagram-hungry Pitti hero would wear, its a style that's evolved continuously and has been perfected by the Row.
Contrast that with Florentine or Neapolitan tailors, where the excessive cutaways, high-buttoning points, and unpadded shoulders only look good on a select subsection of customers. If you're a big guy with a muscular build, or if you have sloping shoulders, or if you have large hips / seat, those cuts will almost certainly not look good on you

Consistency
This is a big one. My suits from my SR tailors are ALWAYS the same. There is an amazing consistency to the output - again, in stark contrast to the Italians. Suits from Italian tailors are almost always different across iterations which can be extremely frustrating

Why is there no love for American tailors or for items made in Brooklyn?
post #48 of 95
^ That's not what this thread is about.
post #49 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post
 

I'd agree if you are talking about Neapolitan tailoring in particular, but not if you are talking about Italian tailoring, in general, which I feel is a better comparison.

 

If you walk into any store, from Mario's in Seattle to Bergdorf Goodman's in NYC, to Neiman Marcus's flagship in Houston, you will see rack and racks of Italian made and branded suits - from Canali and Corneliani "entry" level suits to $6K Kiton and Attolini joints.  This is the exposure of most customers who care to high end tailoring.  There will nary be an English tailoring brand in sight, except maybe forthe Paul Smith or occasional Richard James sighting.

This is quite true. Walk into Barneys New York and their suit department is all Italian. Savile Row to me is bespoke.

post #50 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

^ That's not what this thread is about.

touche.
post #51 of 95

mainline chester barrie OTR is not uncommon in US retail, don't know if they're still making for RL Purple Label. I believe Kilgour has retail shops around as well. 

 

English silk seems to be in fashion these days as well. it could be that the pendulum is swinging away from italy. sorry for any derail.

post #52 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by double00 View Post
 

mainline chester barrie OTR is not uncommon in US retail, don't know if they're still making for RL Purple Label. I believe Kilgour has retail shops around as well. 

 

English silk seems to be in fashion these days as well. it could be that the pendulum is swinging away from italy. sorry for any derail.

I have to admit I've checked all the major retailers and not seen anything above Paul Smith and Richard James (as was mentiond earlier). RL shifted to Caruso and St. Andrews ages ago I believe. I've visited the Row and was impressed (as a complete neophyte at the time) but I think the Italians have seized the day for most Americans anyway. 

 

I love all the pics above but the high-roped (pagoda?) shoulders are very feminine. Barneys (admission: my favorite store on the planet) carries Cifonelli but I don't really like the silhouette.

 

The Steed MTM thing looks appealing but I'm more tempted by Formosa I guess. James Bond is wearing Zegna-made Tom Ford now...

post #53 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by smittycl View Post

I have to admit I've checked all the major retailers and not seen anything above Paul Smith and Richard James (as was mentiond earlier). RL shifted to Caruso and St. Andrews ages ago I believe. I've visited the Row and was impressed (as a complete neophyte at the time) but I think the Italians have seized the day for most Americans anyway. 

I love all the pics above but the high-roped (pagoda?) shoulders are very feminine. Barneys (admission: my favorite store on the planet) carries Cifonelli but I don't really like the silhouette.

The Steed MTM thing looks appealing but I'm more tempted by Formosa I guess. James Bond is wearing Zegna-made Tom Ford now...

Tom Ford looks very Savile row though, sharp lines, longer coat. Perhaps this is the greatest indicator of Savile Row's influence, the biggest luxury suit maker in the world styles his suits in a very English way.
Edited by David Reeves - 6/21/16 at 1:59pm
post #54 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post

You don't see a whole lot of Norton & Sons on the interwebz, but what you do you see is great. Patrick Grant, like Michael Browne or Davide Taub, is one of those Row cutters who acts as the best ambassador for the brand because of the way his is dressed:



The style strikes me as very classic, beautifully proportioned, and almost somewhere in between soft tailoring and military tailoring.

And then there is the best looking four-buttone double breasted ever produced:


I like the no frills look of norton & sons (i.e. no skirt flare).

post #55 of 95
Thread Starter 
Kilgour was my first tailor on the row, approximately 10 years ago. At the time Kilgour was undergoing some pretty dramatic changes in ownership and personnel and I think all the noise resulted in some issues with the final product. I never understood the Shanghai bespoke offering, which was souped-up Chan. They never got my fit quite right in my opinion. That being said, the high level of the workmanship still shows, I think, in this summer lined suit:



post #56 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post

Kilgour was my first tailor on the row, approximately 10 years ago. At the time Kilgour was undergoing some pretty dramatic changes in ownership and personnel and I think all the noise resulted in some issues with the final product. I never understood the Shanghai bespoke offering, which was souped-up Chan. They never got my fit quite right in my opinion. That being said, the high level of the workmanship still shows, I think, in this summer lined suit:




How many items did you order, and what was off with the final goods?
post #57 of 95
Thread Starter 
^ it's fine. Will post pics in the next day or so. Could be better but it's ok. Had at least two - maybe three - commissions.
post #58 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by smittycl View Post

This is quite true. Walk into Barneys New York and their suit department is all Italian. Savile Row to me is bespoke.

I don't know if they still do, but they used to sell Huntsman RTW.
post #59 of 95
Still do, and it's very over priced for RTW. I mean, the quality is very good...but that price...I guess it's for the quality conscious prince insensitive who don't want the hassle of bespoke (and for whom bespoke is a hassle)
post #60 of 95
Thread Starter 
^ it's also made in Italy, which strikes me as totally bizarre but so be it.
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