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AGJiffy's Wall Street Indiviudally Modified Conservative Business Dress Week Threak - Page 14

post #196 of 293

I'm intrigued by what appears to be a sidearm in the distance of the photo

post #197 of 293

Looks like flip flops to me.

post #198 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post
 

Looks like flip flops to me.

Flip flops, one sitting on top of the other. Who leaves a pistol on the floor by the door anyway? I don't think he's in Alabama...

post #199 of 293

Alabamans are far too familiar with the care and maintenance of guns to leave them on the floor. Leave it to a Chicagoan...

post #200 of 293

Well, he is a member of an elite Wall Street SEALS task force

post #201 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post
 

Alabamans are far too familiar with the care and maintenance of guns to leave them on the floor. Leave it to a Chicagoan...

True enough. Maybe on the floor of a trailer there but never a house.

post #202 of 293

Man, I hate DBs.

post #203 of 293
Thread Starter 
It is obviously a side arm.

DWW has repeatedly tried to suck all of the fun out of this thread by asking in straightforward and very boring terms what I don’t like about wearing this substantial part of my wardrobe to work, particularly given my willingness to wear what DWW would think of as absurd perversions of classical style like patch pockets and peak lapels and pagoda shoulders.

Here is my straightforward answer.

To me, those perversions in which I so willingly engage – pagoda, patch, peak, sometimes a loud tie, a sportcoat (this one was a little silly – sportcoats are generally fine) – are all very much within the language of what I think of as normal and recognizable deviations from classical style. They are, in other words, ok. Walk into Phineas Cole or Purple Label and you will see each of those perversions (maybe not altogether on a single garment). They are, in the world that I inhabit, perhaps symbols of an aggressive style of dress, but fairly common and normal. Walk into any tailor and ask for patch pockets or peak lapels and they will generally oblige. Take a look at the cutter & tailor forum - Les Encroyables - and you will see these types of variations presented in stylish and beautiful ways in every decade.

This look to me feels different. It is, I think, an example of a very distinct regional style from a faraway region. It reflects a climate and a lifestyle that is very different from mine. In fact, with the exception of a few travelling tailosr that many of us use, I think there is now one place in the United States that sells this style, and it is a few years old. 10-15 years ago I don’t think anyone but a very small number of hard core clothing enthusiasts would have even had this look on their radar. I think it is incredibly recognizable as something different. Here, I think it is a trend (and one that is in its late stages). Many here have suggested that no one else will notice much. That is fair enough, I suppose, but it won’t change the way I feel wearing the clothing. And other than occasionally looking in the mirror and not being thrilled with the way I look, I’m not seeing a whole lot of this look in my day-to-day life. I feel a little bit like I’m wearing Bermuda shorts in Manhattan.

So there you go. I don’t hate your Neapolitan suits. I just think they look like Neapolitan suits.
post #204 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post
 

Alabamans are far too familiar with the care and maintenance of guns to leave them on the floor. Leave it to a Chicagoan...

A Chicagoan would be too busy shooting people in the streets to have their gun on the floor...

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-weekend-shootings-20160613-story.html

post #205 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprout2 View Post
 

Man, I hate DBs.

Almost always looks like a costume to me, but I have two friends in their early 30s who somehow pull it off. Even if they were back in fashion, I would roast to death weraing one.

post #206 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdavro23 View Post
 

A Chicagoan would be too busy shooting people in the streets to have their gun on the floor...

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-weekend-shootings-20160613-story.html


Yes, well, the Chicagoans most often involved in those things are not the type of people to wear DB suits. Or suits of any kind for that matter. Stepping into the South Side is like stepping into another country. Which is oddly where UC is situated. Another indicator of @agjiffy's personality?

post #207 of 293
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdavro23 View Post

Almost always looks like a costume to me, but I have two friends in their early 30s who somehow pull it off. Even if they were back in fashion, I would roast to death weraing one.

Probably 50% of my wardrobe. Love 'em.
post #208 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post

It is obviously a side arm.

DWW has repeatedly tried to suck all of the fun out of this thread by asking in straightforward and very boring terms what I don’t like about wearing this substantial part of my wardrobe to work, particularly given my willingness to wear what DWW would think of as absurd perversions of classical style like patch pockets and peak lapels and pagoda shoulders.

Here is my straightforward answer. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
To me, those perversions in which I so willingly engage – pagoda, patch, peak, sometimes a loud tie, a sportcoat (this one was a little silly – sportcoats are generally fine) – are all very much within the language of what I think of as normal and recognizable deviations from classical style. They are, in other words, ok. Walk into Phineas Cole or Purple Label and you will see each of those perversions (maybe not altogether on a single garment). They are, in the world that I inhabit, perhaps symbols of an aggressive style of dress, but fairly common and normal. Walk into any tailor and ask for patch pockets or peak lapels and they will generally oblige. Take a look at the cutter & tailor forum - Les Encroyables - and you will see these types of variations presented in stylish and beautiful ways in every decade.

This look to me feels different. It is, I think, an example of a very distinct regional style from a faraway region. It reflects a climate and a lifestyle that is very different from mine. In fact, with the exception of a few travelling tailosr that many of us use, I think there is now one place in the United States that sells this style, and it is a few years old. 10-15 years ago I don’t think anyone but a very small number of hard core clothing enthusiasts would have even had this look on their radar. I think it is incredibly recognizable as something different. Here, I think it is a trend (and one that is in its late stages). Many here have suggested that no one else will notice much. That is fair enough, I suppose, but it won’t change the way I feel wearing the clothing. And other than occasionally looking in the mirror and not being thrilled with the way I look, I’m not seeing a whole lot of this look in my day-to-day life. I feel a little bit like I’m wearing Bermuda shorts in Manhattan.

So there you go. I don’t hate your Neapolitan suits. I just think they look like Neapolitan suits
.

Just to be clear: my point isn't that sport coats are odd, it's that they would look odd in a room full of suits. Assuming you work in an office full of suits, of course; I have no idea what people really dress like on WS.

Argument remains the same if the office is full of dress shirts and chinos. In today's world, most offices are bifurcated between super dressed down bizcaz/ jacketless suits on the one end, and suit-plus-tie on the other. If your goal is to not be noticed as a man who cares about how he looks, wearing a sport coat might not be to your interest -- esp if the sport coat is something other than solid navy (the most standard and common of odd jackets).

Moving to your other points, I think you're way off in thinking that anyone can tell what's a Neapolitan suit and what's not. Let's think about what a Neapolitan suit even means, even at it's extreme:

1. Soft structure (including chest and shoulders)
2. Possibly some regional sleevehead treatment
3. Barchetta pocket
4. Maybe double pick stitching, depending on the jacket
5. Often a dropped front balance
6. An extended front dart
7. Possibly wider lapels, depending on the tailor
8. Possibly a regional sleeve button style (waterfall, kissing, maybe not your standard four, depending on the jacket)

The first has a long history in American tailoring. Two through six are way too subtle for anyone to notice (esp the pick stitching on a dark suit/ SC, which is your standard office attire). Seven and eight are increasingly common in RTW.

Which brings me to my other point. If you're taking what's sold in shops as a measure for what people are used to seeing, why discount rtw brands like Kiton, Attolini, and Isaia? Those have been sold in stores much longer than ten years. Not to mention the lower-end rtw companies who have adopted the same Neapolitan signatures (including SuitSupply).

I'm still not understanding how you think pagoda shoulders is 1) less regional than spalla camicia and 2) less noticeable by non-hobbyist. When everyone is wearing Brooks Brothers, few will notice a little shirring on a soft shouldered suit. Maybe one will notice that your shoulders oddly curve upwards. The person may even notice your triple patch pockets -- simply because they're more obvious (nothing to do with perversions of classic style, or whatever your term. Most of my jackets have patch pockets, some triple).

An anecdote: I used to date a girl who grew up in a family full of big time lawyers. She also became a lawyer at one of the large, international corporate law firms. She's very used to seeing suits, having been around them because of her family (where there are multiple lawyers) and seeing them at work.

When I asked her what she thought of a Rubi jacket she saw in real life, she said: "It looks like something from Banana Republic." And she didn't mean it in a snarky way. It's just that, even as a person who sees suits on a regular basis, a suit looks like a suit.

Her brother, who's also a corporate lawyer, is a little more into clothes. If I asked him, I'm sure he would probably name some higher-end brand (mostly to seem in the know). But I doubt he would point to the Neapolitan details or even know the general region. Frankly, I assume he would just name some designer, like Helmut Lang or Alexander Wang, because people think designer = expensive.

In fact, I would bet that, if you took a bunch of the members on this board, and showed them people in A&S, Rubi, and Brooks Brothers jackets in real life -- worn in, say, an office or at a lunch meeting -- few of them would be able to tell which is which. Just because, in real life, few people have an eye for this sort of thing.

If you're talking about keeping regional tailoring styles regional, instead of putting them in areas where they don't belong, Neapolitan tailoring has more in common with American tailoring (and is more commonly sold here through rtw for the last few decades) than your beloved French. If anything looks out of place in American society, it's a Cifonelli jacket; not Rubi.

Truthfully: I think you hate Neapolitan suits because they're popular on this board. It's less about the style or the tailoring. It's more about the wearers.
Edited by dieworkwear - 6/15/16 at 7:13am
post #209 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post

Thanks for chiming in @upr_crust
. On my recent, but brief, visit to New York I stayed a stone's throw from Wall Street (a big mistake as it turns out, seeing how the noise never stops and anyone from a normal part of the country who tries to get a decent night's sleep is SOL). The only thing I was struck by was how little I was struck by the style on WS. It was mostly utterly boring and most of the clothes of those who presumably worked there didn't even fit all that well. I was much more intrigued by the sometimes totally outlandish people in the garment district. Not necessarily for stylistic reasons, but always for anthropological ones.

Thank you, Caustic. On the noise levels present in the financial district at night, the news that the area is a residential area hasn't reached the various department of public works of the City of New York, which performs road repair and other noisy activities at night, even though many buildings are now apartments or hotels, not offices. Part of that may be for traffic control during daytime hours, part, I am sure, just due to habit of public works.
post #210 of 293
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

Just to be clear: my point isn't that sport coats are odd, it's that they would look odd in a room full of suits. Assuming you work in an office full of suits, of course; I have no idea what people really dress like on WS.

Argument remains the same if the office is full of dress shirts and chinos. In today's world, most offices are bifurcated between super dressed down bizcaz/ jacketless suits on the one end, and suit-plus-tie on the other. If your goal is to not be noticed as a man who cares about how he looks, wearing a sport coat might not be to your interest -- esp if the sport coat is something other than solid navy (the most standard and common of odd jackets).

Moving to your other points, I think you're way off in thinking that anyone can tell what's a Neapolitan suit and what's not. Let's think about what a Neapolitan suit even means, even at it's extreme:

1. Soft structure (including chest and shoulders)
2. Possibly some regional sleevehead treatment
3. Barchetta pocket
4. Maybe double pick stitching, depending on the jacket
5. Often a dropped front balance
6. An extended front dart
7. Possibly wider lapels, depending on the tailor
8. Possibly a regional sleeve button style (waterfall, kissing, maybe not your standard four, depending on the jacket)

The first has a long history in American tailoring. Two through six are way too subtle for anyone to notice (esp the pick stitching on a dark suit/ SC, which is your standard office attire). Seven and eight are increasingly common in RTW.

Which brings me to my other point. If you're taking what's sold in shops as a measure for what people are used to seeing, why discount rtw brands like Kiton, Attolini, and Isaia? Those have been sold in stores much longer than ten years. Not to mention the lower-end rtw companies who have adopted the same Neapolitan signatures (including SuitSupply).

I'm still not understanding how you think pagoda shoulders is 1) less regional than spalla camicia and 2) less noticeable by non-hobbyist. When everyone is wearing Brooks Brothers, few will notice a little shirring on a soft shouldered suit. Maybe one will notice that your shoulders oddly curve upwards. The person may even notice your triple patch pockets -- simply because they're more obvious (nothing to do with perversions of classic style, or whatever your term. Most of my jackets have patch pockets, some triple).

An anecdote: I used to date a girl who grew up in a family full of big time lawyers. She also became a lawyer at one of the large, international corporate law firms. She's very used to seeing suits, having been around them because of her family (where there are multiple lawyers) and seeing them at work.

When I asked her what she thought of a Rubi jacket she saw in real life, she said: "It looks like something from Banana Republic." And she didn't mean it in a snarky way. It's just that, even as a person who sees suits on a regular basis, a suit looks like a suit.

Her brother, who's also a corporate lawyer, is a little more into clothes. If I asked him, I'm sure he would probably name some higher-end brand (mostly to seem in the know). But I doubt he would point to the Neapolitan details or even know the general region. Frankly, I assume he would just name some designer, like Helmut Lang or Alexander Wang, because people think designer = expensive.

In fact, I would bet that, if you took a bunch of the members on this board, and showed them people in A&S, Rubi, and Brooks Brothers jackets in real life -- worn in, say, an office or at a lunch meeting -- few of them would be able to tell which is which. Just because, in real life, few people have an eye for this sort of thing.

Truthfully: I think you hate Neapolitan suits because they're popular on this board. It's less about the style or the tailoring. It's more about the wearers.

I don't hate Neapolitan suits. I own and wear them. I just don't wear them to work. And I don't understand the story about the girl you used to date.

Really hard to respond to the rest of your post for a couple reasons. First, you don't really understand what I'm talking about when I talk about a Neapolitan look. Here you go, this should answer 10 of your questions:

http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/forum/showthread.php?49543-Neapolitan-Shoulder-Explained

On the pagoda shoulders, to what region would you attribute those? Italy? France? Britain? It is historically done in everywhere that has a serious tradition of tailoring.

I think I said pretty clearly that I'm willing to admit that the neapolitan look may go unnoticed, or noticed no more than any of the other things I"m wearing. So I suppose it boils down to the way I feel wearing it.
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