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AGJiffy's Wall Street Indiviudally Modified Conservative Business Dress Week Threak - Page 9

post #121 of 293
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post


I don't think this excuses you from having some kind of logic or consistency in your beliefs. So if you think a pagoda shouldered, triple patch pocket SC in an all suit environment is OK, but a neatly folded white linen pocket square is not, that seems strange to me. But OK.

you have now seen multiple posts that explain wall street in terms other than an "all suit environment" so we should dispense with that. And of course I have a theory. I just know you are going to be disappointed when you hear it so I'm trying to delay explaining it with pictures over time.
post #122 of 293
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Chu View Post

This is just my opinion, based on my observation. The culture of the firm plays into the dress code to some degree.  I think at, for example, the Bank of New York Mellon, a very conservative American  investment bank that started out as a real bank bank with lots of basic operations like deposits, custody and administrative services, you see blue suits and white shirts, very bland.  But at Credit Suisse, a real old school European M&A investment bank, the people dress real funky.  The CS lobby is like a fashion show exhibit.  

Are you saying that the most CBD of environments are not actually CBD and that individuals are modifying CBD and expressing themselves in non-CBD ways? That seems dangerous unless someone can set parameters around their choices with some sort of coherent theory as to what modifications are and aren't acceptable. We need such a person.
post #123 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post

you have now seen multiple posts that explain wall street in terms other than an "all suit environment" so we should dispense with that. And of course I have a theory. I just know you are going to be disappointed when you hear it so I'm trying to delay explaining it with pictures over time.

I'm already disappointed now though, so at least we'll have a coherent combination between Monday, Tuesday, and the rest of the week.

As far as I understood earlier, WS is moving back to suits.

If an office is mostly chinos and button-ups, I think SC look a little out of place anyway (although, again, I don't think that's the end of the world).

If the office is mostly SC + trousers, then this fits in, but I don't know many offices like that.

If the office is largely permissive, then nuanced distinctions between these things will have little impact. In a NYC marketing agency, you could wear really avant garde SWD outfits, for example, and still be promoted.
post #124 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post


No, I agree with the pocket square. In 2016, it makes a statement, sometimes one that you don't want to make in a workplace. I personally wouldn't wear one in a permissive work environment, let alone a conservative one, although I also don't think it's the end of the world if people know you're interested in clothes. If you're genuinely good at your job and talented, I don't think a pocket square is going to throw your career off-trajectory.

I suppose if you don't have a grand theme or point to make, that's fine. I'm just not 100% sure what we're supposed to do when you post pictures and say "what's wrong with this?," other than say what we don't like about that combo. If it's under the rubric of why something might look out of place in XYZ environment, then there's some measure. If we're just saying what we personally don't like about it, I guess this is a personal agjiffy WAYWT thread. Which is fine.

I don't think this excuses you from having some kind of logic or consistency in your beliefs. So if you think a pagoda shouldered, triple patch pocket SC in an all suit environment is OK, but a neatly folded white linen pocket square is not, that seems strange to me.

I work in a very conservative place and pocket squares are okay if understated and simple. Simple white with rectangular fold just peeking from pocket (the Don Draper) works well with a dark suit. Clumsily stuffing in the oversize Pitti Uomo paisley is generally frowned upon. That said, most guys seem so sartorially unaware that they never notice in the first place. The ladies notice, though.

post #125 of 293
I used to work on Montgomery Street in the San Francisco Financial District, and on the train ride into work I'd occasionally get a Bart operator that said Montgomery Street was known as "Wall Street West." I've never heard that anywhere else and it has almost nothing to do with what I think this thread may and/or may not actually be about.
post #126 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprout2 View Post

French style is maligned to never be understood by a wider audience.

Just like French food. Requires trained taste.
post #127 of 293

If you have to train yourself to like something, how good is it?

post #128 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post

If you have to train yourself to like something, how good is it?

Those are usually the best things.
post #129 of 293

You know, I remember reading an article in some academic journal about how people tend to value things that took some effort to acquire. Let's say you were accepted into a social club. If you got your acceptance letter in the mail and that was it, chances are you would not value it as much as a club in which you had to go through some kind of ceremony, task, or hazing to get into. It wouldn't matter if the club that you only got the letter from was more expensive, more elite, or more fun. You'd still probably value the club that you had to struggle to get into more. Even if it sucks. Same thing, I imagine, with acquired tastes. Just a thought before @sprout2 and @agjiffy start making out again.

post #130 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post

You'd still probably value the club that you had to struggle to get into more.

?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8Ht_nsQ7Hs
post #131 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post

You know, I remember reading an article in some academic journal about how people tend to value things that took some effort to acquire. Let's say you were accepted into a social club. If you got your acceptance letter in the mail and that was it, chances are you would not value it as much as a club in which you had to go through some kind of ceremony, task, or hazing to get into. It wouldn't matter if the club that you only got the letter from was more expensive, more elite, or more fun. You'd still probably value the club that you had to struggle to get into more. Even if it sucks. Same thing, I imagine, with acquired tastes. Just a thought before @sprout2
 and @agjiffy
 start making out again.

OK, now that I know you're serious. Social clubs are bad example. Think literature. If I give my teenage son to read Ana Karenina, he would say what a piece of cheesy love trash novel, and he would give up after 10 pages. I expect in few years he will acquire taste to read it cover to cover in a single breadth (like I did 😉 )
post #132 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Chu View Post

Wall Street firms are all over the place these days. Some firms are completely dress down and others are suited up  - and still departments within firms have different dress codes sometimes. And then you have summer casual and summer Friday casual at most places in effect now. From my experience, law department and investment management personnel (i.e., portfolio managers, hedge fund managers and analyst) tend to suit it up on a regular basis and institutional sales, marketing and retail brokers tend to be more sporty and playful ....and the tech people tend to be......you know, they have their own culture.  

But one thing is for sure at most places for many people at certain levels- you'd better make sure you have on a formal conservative suit if you have a major client meeting or some other executive level meeting, like a board/trustees/directors meeting or something like that. That's why many higher-level persons are always suited up.  The sport coat look isn't going to cut it in that environment at many places. Maybe you can do it, but you're going to be noticed. I know people that keep formal suits, sport coats, shirts and ties in their offices, just in case they get that call to head to the 80th floor to see the big guy/gal...  

I think many law firms on Wall Street, once dressed-down are back in suits again.

This is as good an answer as you're going to get. Manton's thread is a great resource too. I'm an attorney in NYC and interact with people on Wall St. and other conservative dressers. My advice, for what it's worth, is to limit yourself to one bold thing per day. For example if you're wearing a bold patterned suit, wear a solid or subtly patterned shirt and tie. The Italian CBD thread is another good resource. A lot of guys on Wall St. wear louder ties.

Anyway, keep a charcoal/navy suit in the office with a navy tie. That way, if something comes up, you have a conservative outfit handy.
post #133 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by gs77 View Post

OK, now that I know you're serious. Social clubs are bad example. Think literature. If I give my teenage son to read Ana Karenina, he would say what a piece of cheesy love trash novel, and he would give up after 10 pages. I expect in few years he will acquire taste to read it cover to cover in a single breadth (like I did 😉 )

 

Why is your son wrong and you are right, though? (As an aside, I did actually think Anna Karenina was garbage)

post #134 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by bc78 View Post


This is as good an answer as you're going to get. Manton's thread is a great resource too. I'm an attorney in NYC and interact with people on Wall St. and other conservative dressers. My advice, for what it's worth, is to limit yourself to one bold thing per day. For example if you're wearing a bold patterned suit, wear a solid or subtly patterned shirt and tie. The Italian CBD thread is another good resource. A lot of guys on Wall St. wear louder ties.

Anyway, keep a charcoal/navy suit in the office with a navy tie. That way, if something comes up, you have a conservative outfit handy.

Same thing works here. Plaid or boldly striped shirt means solid suit and tie and vice versa. One bold item is enough. I still like to pull off Funky Sport Coat Friday when the evil taskmasters are taking their long summer weekends. Can't alwys get away with it, though.

post #135 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caustic Man View Post

Why is your son wrong and you are right, though? (As an aside, I did actually think Anna Karenina was garbage)

Because I was thinking exactly the same in his age ( Tolstoy is required reading in high school in my home country).
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