Advice for defective shoe toe cap

Hi SF,

Could I have some kind advice with regards to a damaged toe cap? Just to get it out there, just a little but of a history... so I purchased a pair of used Gaziano & Girling shoes from a certain member on B&S Marketplace that I shall not mention. They were polished, and this is how the shoes looked on the advertisement.





Looks like they are in excellent used condition with no defects on the leather. However, what I actually received was a dent/hole in the leather that I cannot get rid of. It was concealed with polish and not mentioned. It looked like this (+ bad scratches on the other shoe).






I contacted the seller. who said there was, I quote, "no defects in the leather, if not I would be the first to raise up my hand.... hence I cannot issue you a refund".


I filed a PayPal case, who decided in his favour because the shoes were 'used'. The pictures look nothing like the product received. Of coursed I was expecting used shoes, but I was expecting what I saw in the pictures. I removed the polish on the dent after the case was over (I couldn't before if not he could say the shoe was in a different condition than sent), now look & behold the damage in the leather:








Hence, now I am left with no remedy and a pair of damaged shoes.

My question now those experienced with scuffs: What could I possibly use to fix the hole in the shoe? The leather is damaged and there is a dent. Which products should I be looking for to cover this hole? I used saphir wax and they don't have enough coverage. Many thanks!!

p.s: I would like to warn the community to be careful of 'used' shoes that have been polished on B&S. Get closer pictures before you pull the trigger. There is a distinct difference between an excellent pair of used shoes and used shoes that had irreversible damage done to it. Buyer beware.

Polish, condition, polish, condition, and so on. No, you will not ever get a scratch out of leather, not really, but that happens to all shoes, eventually, since accidents invariably happen, but a bit of polish will go a long way.

A "dent" you can push out carefully.

Not sure why or how you removed that polish, but it's possible that you may have done further damage to the shoes. Understand your frustration, but I am not sure that that particular action helped you much.

Cheers,

Fok.

Thanks Fok, are there any products you can recommend particularly for dents like this? If you feel the leather it goes inwards so it's more than a scratch I'm afraid. I removed the polish to prove to the seller that he sold me shoes that were damaged. Even with these pictures he insists that there is nothing wrong and accuses me of making up stories. Ridiculous, really.

Rylsa said:

Thanks Fok, are there any products you can recommend particularly for dents like this? If you feel the leather it goes inwards so it's more than a scratch I'm afraid. I removed the polish to prove to the seller that he sold me shoes that were damaged. Even with these pictures he insists that there is nothing wrong and accuses me of making up stories. Ridiculous, really.

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I've seen dents like that before, and have gotten them out by merely using my fingers on the inside to push out. The toe is reinforced with a thicker, stiffer, leather layer, the "salpa". On good shoes, this is actually fairly pliable - cheap shoes use crap leather or plastic that can crack, and you are stuck - and though stiff, will reshape with some pressure. The "dent" looks like a wearer bumped up against a corner, or whatever. The scratch, unfortunately, AFAIK, can only be covered. I suppose that you could apply a coat of paint, aka "correct" the leather, yourself, and I have seen a cobbler do this, but it seems to be an expert level move, and I would certainly not recommend that you try this at home.



Rylsa said:

Thanks Fok, are there any products you can recommend particularly for dents like this? If you feel the leather it goes inwards so it's more than a scratch I'm afraid. I removed the polish to prove to the seller that he sold me shoes that were damaged. Even with these pictures he insists that there is nothing wrong and accuses me of making up stories. Ridiculous, really.

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If I may - I see that Rylsa is seeking to cast me as a "ridiculous seller". I certainly hope Rylsa gets the advice he needs here to address his personal issues with the shoes, but I cannot allow spurious claims about dark motives to go unanswered.

I sold the shoes (with trees) to him - after lengthy negotiations that I walked away from not once, but TWICE - for 25% of their value new right now. The shoes were depicted and described as used - not "undamaged", not "near-pristine" - and they were priced and sold as such.

Despite this, Rylsa tried to claim a refund because of cosmetic damage that is perfectly normal and happens to shoes when you wear them. Then he tried to claim that I was misrepresenting and maliciously trying to hide things because I had polished over the damage, never mind the fact that I was clear with him from the beginning that they were used shoes that had been polished because that is exactly what normal people do in the course of wearing shoes. Finally, he launched a PayPal claim that was summarily dismissed within days.

As I'd told him, if I'd sold him shoes where the leather was torn, or if the shoe was not fit for purpose, or it simply LOOKED REALLY BAD to a reasonable third party onlooker, it'd be another story. But no - the shoes looked exactly as they did in my original photographs and described to him: used, but nicely polished by G&G at the Savile Row store.

I've sold 7 other similarly-used pairs in the same lot and NOT ONCE has any other buyer ever highlighted an issue, because they understand what they're paying for, and are more than satisfied; they are enthusiastically happy. Rylsa clearly did not, and apparently still does not.

There - I've said my piece. I hope you can help him meet whatever unrealistic expectations he has in mind. But I will not allow him to cast me as devious and underhand.

grc1 said:

If I may - I see that Rylsa is seeking to cast me as a "ridiculous seller". I certainly hope Rylsa gets the advice he needs here to address his personal issues with the shoes, but I cannot allow spurious claims about dark motives to go unanswered.

I sold the shoes (with trees) to him - after lengthy negotiations that I walked away from not once, but TWICE - for 25% of their value new right now. The shoes were depicted and described as used - not "undamaged", not "near-pristine" - and they were priced and sold as such.

Despite this, Rylsa tried to claim a refund because of cosmetic damage that is perfectly normal and happens to shoes when you wear them. Then he tried to claim that I was misrepresenting and maliciously trying to hide things because I had polished over the damage, never mind the fact that I was clear with him from the beginning that they were used shoes that had been polished because that is exactly what normal people do in the course of wearing shoes. Finally, he launched a PayPal claim that was summarily dismissed within days.

As I'd told him, if I'd sold him shoes where the leather was torn, or if the shoe was not fit for purpose, or it simply LOOKED REALLY BAD to a reasonable third party onlooker, it'd be another story. But no - the shoes looked exactly as they did in my original photographs and described to him: used, but nicely polished by G&G at the Savile Row store.

I've sold 7 other similarly-used pairs in the same lot and NOT ONCE has any other buyer ever highlighted an issue, because they understand what they're paying for, and are more than satisfied; they are enthusiastically happy. Rylsa clearly did not, and apparently still does not.

There - I've said my piece. I hope you can help him meet whatever unrealistic expectations he has in mind. But I will not allow him to cast me as devious and underhand.

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I made an effort not to mention your name but since you have decided to come out of the closet to derail my thread, I will have to kindly direct you away. Let me give you an example of an honest and proper seller: http://www.styleforum.net/t/387084/gaziano-girling-racing-green-savoy-mh71-size-10-5-e-uk-11d-us

Above, I see an advertisement of used shoes, with defects mentioned and pictures encapsulating the point. That is a proper representation of a product on B&S, and not some polished bullshit. 7 pairs sold does not mean they are all of the same condition. I might gotten a 'bad egg', but the true problem lies with your ego. Now please leave my thread alone so it does not get closed.

I would very much appreciate it if other members could recommend products to conceal the dent besides polishing. Thank you very much!

I heard that Saphir repairing cream can help with the toe condition. Kirby posted a video on YouTube on how to use it.

Away with this Necromancy!

Amazing...Those shoes are excellent condition and the “spot” is nothing to be concerned about. Gonna happen the third time worn. Examine at arms length, wear and enjoy.