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East Sicily Tailors - Page 13

post #181 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanComposition View Post

Both tailors mentioned they'd be happy to receive cloth and make/send suits now that they have measurements. Has anyone else done this? A little voice inside me tells me that not having a fitting, even with measurements, is less than ideal. Still, very convenient.


To me this is converting a bespoke pattern to MTM, and my experience suggests the best chance of success is with a tailor that has a solid MTM operation, which sounds like it doesn't apply here.

post #182 of 369
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillingToLearn View Post


To me this is converting a bespoke pattern to MTM, and my experience suggests the best chance of success is with a tailor that has a solid MTM operation, which sounds like it doesn't apply here.
No, they both have my pattern. So, still bespoke.
post #183 of 369
I think his meaning is that, this process would be more analogous to MTM than to bespoke, due to the lack of fitting. Not that I'm endorsing his viewpoint. I have no experience with either.
post #184 of 369
Thread Starter 
I think I see what he means, but ASAIK fittings per se does not make bespoke what it is. MTM takes an existing pattern and modifies it. Fittings can be involved (I think Steed offers them for his MTM) but usually aren't. Bespoke is when a pattern is drafted from the start based off of the tailors measurements and notes on your stance, the way your arms hang, etc.
In other words, you have a pattern with your name on it. One is not necessarily better; bespoke is simply customized from the beginning.
Good point about fabrics performing differently from each other, poorsod. I hadn't thought of that.
post #185 of 369
I think it can be hard to define bespoke since there are so many ways tailors can make garments. FWIW, however, a lot of tailors use block patterns at this point, even on Savile Row. You still get a lot more freedom in bespoke, but in some respects, it's kind of like CAD/ MTM in that you start with an initial pattern (rather than draft something totally from scratch).

I actually think one of the main differences between bespoke and MTM is the number of fittings, not necessarily how patterns are drafted. You have more chances to get something right through that iterative fitting process.

Anyway, I think trousers can be made straight to finish. Not so sure it's a good idea for jackets given all the reasons stated up-thread. I also find it somewhat surprising a tailor would even offer it. Maybe he's had experience doing this and it's OK? I know some tailors don't do it because there's more emphasis on the fitting process than the pattern drafting (supposedly, this is more the case in Italy, but that might be one of those "regional differences" that gets overplayed on forums). Basically, some tailors cut the pattern a little big (sometimes even a little sloppy) and figure they'll just fix everything at the fitting. Which basically mean your "bespoke process" is all about the fittings.

I wouldn't do a straight-to-finish jacket myself, but I admit I'd be curious to see your results if you go for it.
post #186 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

I think it can be hard to define bespoke since there are so many ways tailors can make garments. FWIW, however, a lot of tailors use block patterns at this point (even on Savile Row). Some may draft your pattern from scratch, but a lot of times, it's basically modified off the block. In some ways, the pattern drafting process isn't too unlike MTM/ CAD (although, bespoke still obviously has a lot more freedom for what's possible).

I actually think one of the main differences between bespoke and MTM is the number of fittings, not necessarily how patterns are drafted. You have more chances to get something right through that iterative fitting process.

Anyway, I think trousers can be made straight to finish. Not so sure it's a good idea for jackets given all the reasons stated up-thread. I also find it somewhat surprising a tailor would even offer it. Maybe he's had experience doing this and it's OK? I know some tailors don't do it because there's more emphasis on the fitting process than the pattern drafting (supposedly, this is more the case in Italy, but that might be one of those "regional differences" that gets overplayed on forums). Basically, some tailors cut the pattern a little big (sometimes even a little sloppy) and figure they'll just hone everything in at the fitting. Which means the fittings are crucial.

I wouldn't do a straight-to-finish jacket myself, but I admit I'd be really curious to see your results if you go for it.

Rubinacci?
post #187 of 369
Thread Starter 
You'll have your chance: I had zero fittings for the gunclub. It was all based off the three fittings of the tobacco fresco. TBH I'm curious as well to see the finished product & how it compares to the fresco. If it's good, I'll strongly consider sending out fabric and going for one fitting for small adjustments.
post #188 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanComposition View Post

You'll have your chance: I had zero fittings for the gunclub. It was all based off the three fittings of the tobacco fresco. TBH I'm curious as well to see the finished product & how it compares to the fresco. If it's good, I'll strongly consider sending out fabric and going for one fitting for small adjustments.

I've had instances like what you are expecting to receive soon, delivery of a second unfitted jacket based off of the pattern of another jacket that was fitted. Oddly enough, the second unfitted jacket was perfect and the first fitted jacket needed some adjustments. It could be that the tailor made adjustments to the pattern after the fittings of the first jacket before he cut the second jacket.

I think you'd be fine with one forward fitting with these tailors on your next visit. I'd probably risk a jacket without fitting if I needed it in a rush and have the chance to get it tweaked later if necessary.
post #189 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

I think it can be hard to define bespoke since there are so many ways tailors can make garments. FWIW, however, a lot of tailors use block patterns at this point, even on Savile Row. You still get a lot more freedom in bespoke, but in some respects, it's kind of like CAD/ MTM in that you start with an initial pattern (rather than draft something totally from scratch).

I actually think one of the main differences between bespoke and MTM is the number of fittings, not necessarily how patterns are drafted. You have more chances to get something right through that iterative fitting process.

Anyway, I think trousers can be made straight to finish. Not so sure it's a good idea for jackets given all the reasons stated up-thread. I also find it somewhat surprising a tailor would even offer it. Maybe he's had experience doing this and it's OK? I know some tailors don't do it because there's more emphasis on the fitting process than the pattern drafting (supposedly, this is more the case in Italy, but that might be one of those "regional differences" that gets overplayed on forums). Basically, some tailors cut the pattern a little big (sometimes even a little sloppy) and figure they'll just fix everything at the fitting. Which basically mean your "bespoke process" is all about the fittings.

I wouldn't do a straight-to-finish jacket myself, but I admit I'd be curious to see your results if you go for it.

There is some truth in Italian tailors' emphasis on the fitting process. They take fewer measurements at the outset and rely on the fitting process to refine the pattern. Once the pattern is refined, subsequent fittings will get better and better.
post #190 of 369
Rubinacci is one of the tailors I have used that nailed my second order straight to finish. I was impressed.
post #191 of 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by bry2000 View Post

Rubinacci is one of the tailors I have used that nailed my second order straight to finish. I was impressed.

Curious, did you meet with Mariano and your cutter for those Rubi jackets, or just Luca? Not to drive this too far from the thread topic, but how do you like your Rubinacci jackets?
post #192 of 369

One of my tailors from Naples draws the pattern with a ruler from like 6 numbers he's writtten down.. the other keeps paper patterns.  I would probably be more comfortable with straight to finish from a paper pattern... but I haven't yet tried that yet.  If you get it without a fitting from a tailor in Italy... it is definitely still bespoke... just bespoke without a fitting.  I do feel like each jacket gets better as the tailors get a better understanding of what I want... and as I myself get a better understanding of what I want.... so definitely get fittings if you can.

post #193 of 369
Thread Starter 
Need to give them a press, but this arrived today.



post #194 of 369
Can't wait to see fit pics bro!
post #195 of 369

Beautiful workmanship, P.

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