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Stephane Jimenez Bespoke Shoes - Page 7

post #91 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

More picture and info. Less shop photos. Thanks!!


You're welcome.

For more info, please ask about what you want to know and we will be happy to answer.

For pictures, we try to post a new one each day, seven days a week, but if you want to see specific points, feel free to ask, it will be a pleasure too.

 

Thank you !

post #92 of 109
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanejimenez View Post


Hi Matthew !

Sure, we will post here our finished work. Some pairs should be delivered this month !

About our little agreement, I just sent you in DM the GPS location of where to dig.

tumblr_mr63tonWZt1r3xhpio1_400.jpg
Say hello to Justin and Hugo there wink.gif  

Thanks I can't wait to see them too. It's been too long! I'll coordinate with both Justin and Hugo for when we should go. Maybe we should wait for Jesper to join us too!!!!
post #93 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


+1

Sometimes I just have to shake my head....why do people buy multi $k shoes without knowing anything about them...anything about how they are put together or how that relates to objective quality...or even about feet in general, much less their own feet?

I suspect it's affectation. Pretense. A kind of "self-praise" that goes beyond anything as simple as stating your own credentials or even preferences. I suspect people buy such shoes (and many other consumables) simply to show off. To lay claim to a sophistication or social status that they do not really have nor have any right to claim.

And yes, there are many here that make it a point to look beyond the superficial bulling and patinas, etc.. But they are relatively few and usually not the most vociferous in defense of cachet or the box or the politic, "common man" dismissal of "expertise."

PS, and on edit...this is not really in response to anyone's comments, simply an observation from someone who has been in the same position.

 

I respect your knowledge and willingness to impart the same to other posters on this forum however, I must take objection to this post.

 

Do you know and have a working knowledge of why a Ferrari's engine is "better" than a Volskwagen's? If you decided to buy a Ferrari would you feel the need to understand how the engine management, metallurgy, tuning etc contributed towards the increased performance before purchasing or do you understand how the car you currently own works enough to carry out the maintenance/rebuilding yourself?

 

This is a genuine question as no one person can be "that" knowledgeable on every topic so if the restriction of understanding how every component of every item you ever bought was created/manufactured/finished was applied few people would ever own anything.

 

Watchmaking, engine building, shoe making etc are all fields that require expertise to be at the top tier but the top tier makers would not exist if only customers who understood how they were designed/assembled/made could purchase them.

post #94 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Beyond that, wearing shoes doesn't give you any insights to how shoes are made much less what distinguishes quality from the ordinary. Why spend +/-$2k when $500.00 is adequate in most if not all cases? esp. in the absence of objective knowledge about the relative merits of specific construction techniques, leathers, etc..

--

Really, unless you are a complete philistine, pretty much nothing you wear is purely for function.  I have smokejumper's gear that is as functional as anything out there, but I'm not going to pull it out of my closet unless I am going out on the fireline.  I wear completely impractical Guidi boots that are improbably expensive and that have been tumbler dyed in a water bath, a process that is actually destructive to the boots, because I think that they look cool and I enjoy the colors that Guidi is able to achieve.  They don't garner me any social standing (most people where I live assume that they are off-white cowboy boots), and I'm not doing it to impress anyone.  I put them on this morning to... work at my desk.  

 

I'm not looking for clothing or footwear that is "adequate".  I'm looking for things that bring me enjoyment.  The objective quality of the make, is, for me, at least, a secondary concern.  Though it's certainly not a completely trivial concern, I am much more interested in design.  Though this is probably completely alien to you, I am pretty happy with "adequate" quality, and would be much happier with something that fits my self-image and is of adequate quality, than something of superlative quality, but does not match the landscape of my mind's eye.

post #95 of 109

Unfortunately, for the time being, I have had to ask @stephanejimenez to refrain from posting on this thread, until he has normalized his relationship with Styleforum.  We only allow brands with a contract with Styleforum to post re. their own goods and otherwise engage in marketing and advertising activities on the forum.  This is to protect both the Sty;leforum business and the community from being inundated with posts by commercial members re. their own goods.  

 

Gregory had been in contact with us as of late March, but had not opted to make a contract with Styleforum.  He was therefore not unaware that his posts on the forum were not allowed.  Hopefully, our advertising and marketing team and he can come to an agreement shortly.

 

In the meantime, please continue to keep discussing the brand.  Please note that these user generated threads are NEVER turned into affiliate threads, even though we are often asked to do so, to protect the integrity of the community.

 

Cheers,

 

Fok.

post #96 of 109
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

Unfortunately, for the time being, I have had to ask @stephanejimenez
 to refrain from posting on this thread, until he has normalized his relationship with Styleforum.  We only allow brands with a contract with Styleforum to post re. their own goods and otherwise engage in marketing and advertising activities on the forum.  This is to protect both the Sty;leforum business and the community from being inundated with posts by commercial members re. their own goods.  

Gregory had been in contact with us as of late March, but had not opted to make a contract with Styleforum.  He was therefore not unaware that his posts on the forum were not allowed.  Hopefully, our advertising and marketing team and he can come to an agreement shortly.

In the meantime, please continue to keep discussing the brand.  Please note that these user generated threads are NEVER turned into affiliate threads, even though we are often asked to do so, to protect the integrity of the community.

Cheers,

Fok.

Thanks for posting that info and I hope that other regular members like me will stay active on the thread as we try to learn more about this brand.
post #97 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Cash View Post

I respect your knowledge and willingness to impart the same to other posters on this forum however, I must take objection to this post.

Do you know and have a working knowledge of why a Ferrari's engine is "better" than a Volskwagen's? If you decided to buy a Ferrari would you feel the need to understand how the engine management, metallurgy, tuning etc contributed towards the increased performance before purchasing or do you understand how the car you currently own works enough to carry out the maintenance/rebuilding yourself?

This is a genuine question as no one person can be "that" knowledgeable on every topic so if the restriction of understanding how every component of every item you ever bought was created/manufactured/finished was applied few people would ever own anything.

Watchmaking, engine building, shoe making etc are all fields that require expertise to be at the top tier but the top tier makers would not exist if only customers who understood how they were designed/assembled/made could purchase them.

None of that is relevant to my comments, however. Better to ask what the proper response is when the Ferrari mechanic tells you something about the Ferrari engine. Or the watchmaker tell you something about how watches are made.

I suspect...at least for me...the correct responsive would be to listen.

Unless at some level you really don't want to know.

mw313 has a great deal of first hand experience and knowledge about feet and the physiology of feet, the biomechanics.

He tried to explain that to people. And was taken to task for citing his credentials.

Really, we all pretend that we all know everything about everything and thus our opinions are all equal. But it's not true. And to pretend otherwise is disrespectful, probably even arrogant...right out of the gate.

--
Edited by DWFII - 5/15/16 at 5:18pm
post #98 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

Really, unless you are a complete philistine, pretty much nothing you wear is purely for function.  I have smokejumper's gear that is as functional as anything out there, but I'm not going to pull it out of my closet unless I am going out on the fireline.  I wear completely impractical Guidi boots that are improbably expensive and that have been tumbler dyed in a water bath, a process that is actually destructive to the boots, because I think that they look cool and I enjoy the colors that Guidi is able to achieve.  They don't garner me any social standing (most people where I live assume that they are off-white cowboy boots), and I'm not doing it to impress anyone.  I put them on this morning to... work at my desk.  

I'm not looking for clothing or footwear that is "adequate".  I'm looking for things that bring me enjoyment.  The objective quality of the make, is, for me, at least, a secondary concern.  Though it's certainly not a completely trivial concern, I am much more interested in design.  Though this is probably completely alien to you, I am pretty happy with "adequate" quality, and would be much happier with something that fits my self-image and is of adequate quality, than something of superlative quality, but does not match the landscape of my mind's eye.

There is nothing wrong with any of that. But you yourself acknowledge the shortcomings of the quality and the superficiality of why you like/wear them--" because I think that they look cool."

I've never offered any criticism of why people choose what they wear except in the context of trying to justify such choices on the basis of objective quality, or technique.

When people start defending the indefensible in those terms, it's spreading misinformation; and when it's proactively confronting people who do know and do have first hand experience, it's disrespectful.

It's not like these discussions or these comments, either one, occur in a vacuum.
post #99 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


There is nothing wrong with any of that. But you yourself acknowledge the shortcomings of the quality and the superficiality of why you like/wear them--" because I think that they look cool."

I've never offered any criticism of why people choose what they wear except in the context of trying to justify such choices on the basis of objective quality, or technique.

When people start defending the indefensible in those terms, it's spreading misinformation; and when it's proactively confronting people who do know and do have first hand experience, it's disrespectful.

It's not like these discussions or these comments, either one, occur in a vacuum.

To be fair to the makers of the boots I like - they are purportedly handwelted, though the poor Italian translation (and this happens in Japanese as well) translates this to "goodyear welted" or "hand goodyear welted".  There are plenty of videos showing the manufacturing procedure, and handwelting it is, unless they are using cyborgs, which, frankly, would be extremely impressive.  I've seen one video of people apparently doing actual "hand welted goodyear welt", or well, whatever makes sense in a topsy turvy world.  

 

Instead of the usual stitch patterns that I've seen on handwelted shoes, the workmen seemed to be actually trying to emulate a good year welt... buy hand.  No, it doesn't make any sense, but many Japanese designers have a history of taking what are traditionally industrial produces and producing them using pre-industrial processes.  I have a pair of handwelted sneakers, for example...

 

That said, comparing "classic" footwear to the some of this footwear would be like comparing apples to panna cotta, or Leonardo DaVinci's oils to the best Chinese watercolors.  The criteria for determining the quality of one simply can't be applied to the other.

 

Anyway... back to the regularly scheduled programming. (Sorry for the diversion folks.  Nothing to see here.)

post #100 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

That said, comparing "classic" footwear to the some of this footwear would be like comparing apples to panna cotta, or Leonardo DaVinci's oils to the best Chinese watercolors.  The criteria for determining the quality of one simply can't be applied to the other.

Not to put too fine a point on it, that's kind of the point though...because shoes are a functional artifact and fundamentally intended for a purpose, a common purpose which ultimately defines and justifies their very existence, it's not really Art and as such cannot be excepted from objective comparison. Regardless of the maker or the style they are all in the same class of items, again defined by purpose. So it may be comparing Braeburns to Granny Smiths but it's still apples to apples...panna cotta ain't in it.

If we start talking about shoes in the context of aesthetic preferences...there is no room for discussion at all simply because everyone's preferences are different (maybe) and subjective.
post #101 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Not to put too fine a point on it, that's kind of the point though...because shoes are a functional artifact and fundamentally intended for a purpose, a common purpose which ultimately defines and justifies their very existence, it's not really Art and as such cannot be excepted from objective comparison. Regardless of the maker or the style they are all in the same class of items, again defined by purpose. So it may be comparing Braeburns to Granny Smiths but it's still apples to apples...panna cotta ain't in it.

If we start talking about shoes in the context of aesthetic preferences...there is no room for discussion at all simply because everyone's preferences are different (maybe) and subjective.

Shoes are a functional artifact, buit that's where my agreement with you ends.  A pair of country boots serve a very different purpose than a pair of ballet pumps.  Different shoes are meant for very different purposes.  Comparisons about "quality" can only be made within a very narrow spectrum.  And even then, we quickly run into bugbears like "quality/price ratios" and the question of diminishing functional returns.  

 

As for discussions of aesthetic preferences, that is where, imo, the conversation gets very interesting.  This is what distinguishes good designers (in the broad sense) from poor.  There is no "objective" argument to be had, which is not to say that "impartial" discussions cannot be had.  i.e. you can appreciate an aesthetic that is completely contrary to what you yourself prefer - as an example, I love tough, durable, zombie apocalypse ready clothing, but appreciate fine embroidering and lacework, which would slow down zombies not one bite.

post #102 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


None of that is relevant to my comments, however. Better to ask what the proper response is when the Ferrari mechanic tells you something about the Ferrari engine. Or the watchmaker tell you something about how watches are made.

I suspect...at least for me...the correct responsive would be to listen.

Unless at some level you really don't want to know.

mw313 has a great deal of first hand experience and knowledge about feet and the physiology of feet, the biomechanics.

He tried to explain that to people. And was taken to task for citing his credentials.

Really, we all pretend that we all know everything about everything and thus our opinions are all equal. But it's not true. And to pretend otherwise is disrespectful, probably even arrogant...right out of the gate.

--


​Like I said I respect your experience and opinions and always take them on board. No criticism towards any member has ever come from my direction - I know my place.

 

I did however, take your statement to imply that you felt it was pretentious to own a $2k pair of shoes whilst possessing no understanding of the design or manufacture or indeed wanting to learn about the same. This was the only issue I took as I'm sure the average customer of any top end brand could not make the item themselves (or even understand how they work) and if they only sold products to those who could then there would be very few artisans left.

 

To use the car analogy again you used the example of believing the Ferrari mechanic but surely this is the same as believing the Ferrari salesman and buying a car for pretentious reasons an one up-manship - which may sometimes be the case.

 

I suppose the crux of the matter is I have bought shoes in this price bracket whilst possessing zero knowledge on the subject but I didn't feel unqualified to do so and I do not feel pretentious in wearing them much the same as any other items I own.

 

I have no knowledge of engine building or watchmaking either but I receive an awful amount of pleasure in owning and using them.

post #103 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Cash View Post


​Like I said I respect your experience and opinions and always take them on board. No criticism towards any member has ever come from my direction - I know my place.

I did however, take your statement to imply that you felt it was pretentious to own a $2k pair of shoes whilst possessing no understanding of the design or manufacture or indeed wanting to learn about the same. This was the only issue I took as I'm sure the average customer of any top end brand could not make the item themselves (or even understand how they work) and if they only sold products to those who could then there would be very few artisans left.

To use the car analogy again you used the example of believing the Ferrari mechanic but surely this is the same as believing the Ferrari salesman and buying a car for pretentious reasons an one up-manship - which may sometimes be the case.

I suppose the crux of the matter is I have bought shoes in this price bracket whilst possessing zero knowledge on the subject but I didn't feel unqualified to do so and I do not feel pretentious in wearing them much the same as any other items I own.

I have no knowledge of engine building or watchmaking either but I receive an awful amount of pleasure in owning and using them.

Pleasure and pretense are not mutually exclusive.

What is the motivation for paying four times as much for a pair of shoes as for another that fulfill the same function? If not that you understand the details and differences well enough to appreciate the differences?

What is even the motivation for seeking out the $2k pair of shoes as opposed to the $500.00 pair of shoes unless you understand the details and differences?

Read this forum...nine times out of ten it's the box. And SF is hardly a reflection of society at large.

From there it's just a matter of degree. Those who seek better often try to learn more in order to increase their appreciatiation and pleasure...and to justify their continuing interest. But not always. For some it's just too much trouble and they'd rather depend on the recommendations, and the work, focus and experience, of others who are motivated by details such as techniques and objective quality. How many times do we hear "what should I get?" when the real question being asked is "what should I like?"

What makes pretense distasteful...in my personal opinion...is that there is a failure to be honest with one's own self nevermind everybody else. And that leads to disrespect and confrontation.

Example...because I have Scottish ancestry, I sometimes wear a kilt. And take great pleasure in it. In the sense that I am not a Scottish national, it is a pretense. But the saving grace is that I know that, I openly admit it and I wear the kilt with respect and deference...esp. for people who are Scottish.

And no, the Ferrari salesman is the last person you should listen to if you really want to understand and appreciate.

--
Edited by DWFII - 5/16/16 at 7:05am
post #104 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Pleasure and pretense are not mutually exclusive.

What is the motivation for paying four times as much for a pair of shoes as for another that fulfill the same function? If not that you understand the details and differences well enough to appreciate the differences?

What is even the motivation for seeking out the $2k pair of shoes as opposed to the $500.00 pair of shoes unless you understand the details and differences?

Read this forum...nine times out of ten it's the box. And SF is hardly a reflection of society at large.

From there it's just a matter of degree. Those who seek better often try to learn more in order to increase their appreciate and pleasure...and to justify their continuing interest. But not always. For some it's just too much trouble and they'd rather depend on the recommendations, and the work, focus and experience, of others who are motivated by details such as techniques and objective quality. How many times do we hear "what should I get?" when the real question being asked is "what should I like?"

What makes pretense distasteful...in my personal opinion...is that there is a failure to be honest with one's own self nevermind everybody else. And that leads to disrespect and confrontation.

Example...because I have Scottish ancestry, I sometimes wear a kilt. In the sense that I am not Scottish, it is a pretense. But the saving grace is that I Know that, I openly admit it and I do it with respect...esp. for people who are Scottish.

And no, the Ferrari salesman is the last person you should listen to if you really want to understand and appreciate.

--

Mate, stop carrying on like the Queen.

There is an information asymmetry, and people sometimes foolishly use price as a proxy for quality. Purveyors of women luxury goods have acted on this for ages.

What exactly is so perplexing that you feel compelled to carry on and on about this issue?
post #105 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petepan View Post

Mate, stop carrying on like the Queen.

There is an information asymmetry, and people sometimes foolishly use price as a proxy for quality. Purveyors of women luxury goods have acted on this for ages.

What exactly is so perplexing that you feel compelled to carry on and on about this issue?

Rub the sleep out of your eyes...my last post in this thread, before Steven Cash quoted me and engaged me, was three weeks ago. Since then I've just been responding.
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