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Official Terrorist Bombing and Other Acts of Inhumanity Thread - Page 19

post #271 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by wojt View Post

God, you're smug

just to remind you point of discussion was wheter you could do it lawfully
not wheter it would piss off some allies or not

Beyond "pissing off some allies" the US president is part of a system with its rules but also its own logic, finding some sort of executive order way to deport Jews to Cuba wouldn't really prove "it can be done" unless you understand the praxis of various moving parts of the US government. The way foreign affairs are handled, with its integration within a tradition of post WWII diplomacy (the new world order of the Bretton woods conference but also the mentality in diplomatic circles) determine the world of possibles. Mentalities and practices can change but Trump has no revolutionary program, well he has no program period. His campaign isn't programmatic, it is more of an outpouring of emotions about the complexity and menace of the contemporary world. I am not per se hostile to that, which is why I also appreciated the "occupy wall street" campaign, but without a more analytical portrait of things as they stand and evolve and a programmatic side it is definitely not a political program. In that sense (and that sense only) Trump is like ISIS, more of a rash than anything else.
post #272 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by wojt View Post

hahahaahha, ladies and gentleman this is classic throught process of a regressive leftist

Ignore problem A, talk about problem B instead, then draw false equivalency fing02[1].gif
because two wrongs make a who gives a ****

ps. have you mentioned crusades yet?

two abrahamic religions have certain branches that not only denounce homosexuals but also call for their killing. to be fair, i didn't insist they were exact equivalents--i asked if there was a meaningful difference since, in this recent christian case, the pastor asked for the state to carry out executions. but you're so smug you didn't even answer my question seriously.

ps - no i have not mentioned the crusades. i mentioned this news article from june 15, 2016.
Edited by erictheobscure - 6/15/16 at 11:54am
post #273 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by erictheobscure View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wojt View Post

hahahaahha, ladies and gentleman this is classic throught process of a regressive leftist

Ignore problem A, talk about problem B instead, then draw false equivalency fing02[1].gif
because two wrongs make a who gives a ****

ps. have you mentioned crusades yet?

two abrahamic religions have certain branches that not only denounce homosexuality but also call for their killing. to be fair, i didn't insist they were exact equivalents--i asked if there was a meaningful difference since, in this recent christian case, the pastor asked for the state to carry out executions. but you're so smug you didn't even answer my question seriously.

ps - no i have not mentioned the crusades. i mentioned this news article from june 15, 2016.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-gay-pride-la-weapons-20160612-snap-story.html
post #274 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

I certainly haven't broadened the "scope" you were discussing (West vs Islam in a clash of civilization) as what I discuss is certainly not based on that. Maybe I shouldn't even have used ISIS as an example and concentrated on other groups to get the point across. Capitalism is a universalist philosophy (well it came from European culture and its universalist tradition) and has in its scope the unlimited, this explains both why (social) conservatives are not as adapted to its mindset as Silicon valley "progressives" (no roots, change instead of social reproduction, global mindset, going toward the inclusion of all races, creeds and sexual orientations etc.) and thus "on the wrong side of history" (they're shooting themselves in the foot) and why it must necessarily create these epidermic reactions in specific certain areas and cultures (i.e. ISIS) when the supposedly aseptic and axiologically neutral global is displacing the traditional local. Demographic data show us there is a convergence of civilizations as far as important indicators are concerned (literacy rates for women, number of children etc.). If I get a rash I don't say there is a clash between myself and the rash.

why do you qualify this with an uncertainty ?
post #275 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by suited View Post

Muslims are responsible for the overwhelming majority of terrorist attacks..

false. but we don't let facts stand in the way of opinions here so carry on.
post #276 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by wojt View Post

I am not aware of any terrorist attack in the west that was stopped because of cooperation of muslim community.

Your lack of knowledge on the issue doesn't stem from any lack of evidence. But again, we don't let facts stand in the way of opinions here so carry on.
post #277 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

why do you qualify this with an uncertainty ?

The axiological neutrality of capitalism is bullshit? It is not some objective, value-free way of handling the economic side but a consequence of past European problematics filled with hidden value judgments? Basically it is so present nowadays (there is no alternative) it becomes invisible, we don't question its premises but they still exist. This is why stuff like tv debates are so fucking stupid, we present hegemonic philosophies already swallowed whole and normalized by the population at large, the imaginary that surrounds them and is as natural to them as air, and pretend that other philosophies have the occasion to make a dent in such a "balanced" format.
post #278 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

false. but we don't let facts stand in the way of opinions here so carry on.

hey, you forgot to provide a (necessarily imperfect but still handy) list that will be conveniently ignored:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States
post #279 of 1314
Europe has less terrorism now than during the extreme left and IRA period coupled with some extreme-right false flag actions.
post #280 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by erictheobscure View Post


hey, you forgot to provide a (necessarily imperfect but still handy) list that will be conveniently ignored:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States

1980-2005 list compiled by FBI
https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005

But this doesn't jive with the narrative so why bother ?
post #281 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

I certainly haven't broadened the "scope" you were discussing (West vs Islam in a clash of civilization) as what I discuss is certainly not based on that. Maybe I shouldn't even have used ISIS as an example and concentrated on other groups to get the point across. Capitalism is a universalist philosophy (well it came from European culture and its universalist tradition) and has in its scope the unlimited, this explains both why (social) conservatives are not as adapted to its mindset as Silicon valley "progressives" (no roots, change instead of social reproduction, global mindset, going toward the inclusion of all races, creeds and sexual orientations etc.) and thus "on the wrong side of history" (they're shooting themselves in the foot) and why it must necessarily create these epidermic reactions in specific certain areas and cultures (i.e. ISIS) when the supposedly aseptic and axiologically neutral global is displacing the traditional local. Demographic data show us there is a convergence of civilizations as far as important indicators are concerned (literacy rates for women, number of children etc.). If I get a rash I don't say there is a clash between myself and the rash.

This is quite good and drives home the point that the conflict between the West and Islam is more of a minor skirmish than a clash.

The actual battle lines are drawn up between the universalism itself and it's discontents, with the former slowly routing the latter for at least 200 years. The type of universalism (sub in progressivism for a more familiar, narrowly defined term that still gets the point across) that was unleashed by the Calvinits has been an extemely successful mind-virus, and when paired with any type of democracy it trends toward totalizing state-expansion.

The invented positive-rights, indoctrination and enforced thought control pushed by public institutions, and dismantling of any future time-orientation in favor of current consumption-- all spiraling out of control in a purity signaling spiral (this is the locus of the Islamic immigration debate)-- is what half of the (mostly inarticulate) country is rebelling against.

Capitalism is a factor to the extent it enables universalism to take hold through increasing wealth and living standards. But calling capitalism a subsut of universalism is getting the correlation backwards. Capitalism isn't much more than a darwinian process that takes off when a minimum of trade and property rights are allowed. E.g. as the rest of the world has gotten on board and slowed US median wage growth, the pushback against universalism has gained momentum.
post #282 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

Europe has less terrorism now than during the extreme left and IRA period coupled with some extreme-right false flag actions.

enough with your false equivalences!

the irish are cute and weird! i know because i eat lucky charms for dinner every night.
post #283 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

The axiological neutrality of capitalism is bullshit? It is not some objective, value-free way of handling the economic side but a consequence of past European problematics filled with hidden value judgments? Basically it is so present nowadays (there is no alternative) it becomes invisible, we don't question its premises but they still exist. This is why stuff like tv debates are so fucking stupid, we present hegemonic philosophies already swallowed whole and normalized by the population at large, the imaginary that surrounds them and is as natural to them as air, and pretend that other philosophies have the occasion to make a dent in such a "balanced" format.

Well I was more wondering why you even said supposedly axiologically neutral, I don't think I've ever heard anything in support of that notion ?
post #284 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by erictheobscure View Post


enough with your false equivalences!

the irish are cute and weird! i know because i eat lucky charms for dinner every night.

 

I heard gingers will steal your soul though.

post #285 of 1314
Thread Starter 
Where do we want to make the begin date on this bit of data twisting? The Shah just posted a link saying it was from 1980-2005 but it's really 2002-2005. Is this just for the US, the world, or other countries that will demonstrate whatever will provide the most convenient data? confused.gif

Also, as that little hate mongering clergy from CA was just brought up, it makes me ask this question: has any Muslim congregation held a gay wedding yet? Serious question as that would be an interesting tidbit.
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