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Official Terrorist Bombing and Other Acts of Inhumanity Thread - Page 18

post #256 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

While I agree with this statement I think many people can't hold it and be consistent. Anyone that dismisses the thought the new geopolitical reality isn't a clash between the West and Islam can't then fall back on these new geopolitical realities to dismiss Trump and be consistent. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

It isn't. The new realities in question are the capabilities of organizations that aren't nation states (or aspiring to) in strongly affecting nation states (think of Isis or Google) and the lack of adaptation of our ways of thinking to this somewhat new reality. You can see it with people constantly thinking of Laws and social initiatives as being about restricting government possible tyranny but with no acknowledgment of corporation power or with people discussing strategy against terror groups like they're nation states, the Iraq war being a prime example of that colossal mistake.
post #257 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by wojt View Post

says who or what law?

Pio properly answered you but to be honest you need to read this:

post #258 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by erictheobscure View Post

This actually cuts to the heart of the matter so I'll respond to it. I'm sure this sounds like a neat, tenable distinction to you, but it's false.

First, the relatively stupid response: you do realize that Irish Catholics were committing acts of (what were labeled) terrorism until the 1990s? If your tidy "perception" vs. "accuracy" question were a valid one, the answer might very well be that Irish Catholics were really dangerous even in recent memory.

But this points to the more important answer: whether a belief system is violent or not changes. This is true when we consider just a religious worldview--it's a really complex question whether Catholicism (to keep up with the current example) has *caused*, merely abetted, or just been an alibi to lots of bloodshed. (Actually, lots and lots of bloodshed in human history.) But two complications to note already: first, a lot of this bloodshed and violence arising out of a Catholic worldview was actually a response to Protestantism. That is, violence doesn't merely just spring up out of a religious worldview but out of tension with another religious worldview and how the perspectives clash. Second, we're not just talking about a religious ideology (Catholicism) but how it intersects with national affiliation and political interests (Irish Catholicism). It's clear--even from your own sense that Irish Catholics aren't particularly dangerous at all--that the question of perception & reality aren't so clear cut but actually feed into each other.

Another interesting example is the arrival of Poles in France, the discourse is remarkably similar to the one concerning North-Africans (can't adapt due to culture, ghetto etc) and public discourse at the time even held their Catholicism against them (sure they're Catholics but their Catholicism is different).
post #259 of 1314
post #260 of 1314
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

It isn't. The new realities in question are the capabilities of organizations that aren't nation states (or aspiring to) in strongly affecting nation states (think of Isis or Google) and the lack of adaptation of our ways of thinking to this somewhat new reality. You can see it with people constantly thinking of Laws and social initiatives as being about restricting government possible tyranny but with no acknowledgment of corporation power or with people discussing strategy against terror groups like they're nation states, the Iraq war being a prime example of that colossal mistake.

I disagree. You've broadened the scope for no real reason.
post #261 of 1314
The NYT editorial today is incredible. I can usually at least grasp the thought process of other ideologies and concede they make some interesting points..

.. but how is this anything but gas-lighting?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/15/opinion/the-corrosive-politics-that-threaten-lgbt-americans.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region
Quote:
… Omar Mateen shattered the tenuous, hard-fought sense of personal safety that many gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender Americans have begun to feel as the movement for equality has made significant gains in recent years. His bullets and the blood he left behind that early morning were a reminder that in many corners of the country, gay and transgender people are still regarded as sinners and second-class citizens who should be scorned.

While the precise motivation for the rampage remains unclear, it is evident that Mr. Mateen was driven by hatred toward gays and lesbians. Hate crimes don’t happen in a vacuum. They occur where bigotry is allowed to fester, where minorities are vilified and where people are scapegoated for political gain. Tragically, this is the state of American politics, driven too often by Republican politicians who see prejudice as something to exploit, not extinguish.
post #262 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I disagree. You've broadened the scope for no real reason.

I certainly haven't broadened the "scope" you were discussing (West vs Islam in a clash of civilization) as what I discuss is certainly not based on that. Maybe I shouldn't even have used ISIS as an example and concentrated on other groups to get the point across. Capitalism is a universalist philosophy (well it came from European culture and its universalist tradition) and has in its scope the unlimited, this explains both why (social) conservatives are not as adapted to its mindset as Silicon valley "progressives" (no roots, change instead of social reproduction, global mindset, going toward the inclusion of all races, creeds and sexual orientations etc.) and thus "on the wrong side of history" (they're shooting themselves in the foot) and why it must necessarily create these epidermic reactions in specific certain areas and cultures (i.e. ISIS) when the supposedly aseptic and axiologically neutral global is displacing the traditional local. Demographic data show us there is a convergence of civilizations as far as important indicators are concerned (literacy rates for women, number of children etc.). If I get a rash I don't say there is a clash between myself and the rash.
post #263 of 1314
Thread Starter 
I don't think I'm smart enough to understand what you said but I'll disagree with it anyway in regards to its applicability to the current conversation.
post #264 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I don't think I'm smart enough to understand what you said but I'll disagree with it anyway.

Is that a Donald Trump quote?
post #265 of 1314
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post

Is that a Donald Trump quote?

No need to be this mean to me!
post #266 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post


Is that a Donald Trump quote?

 

Would Donald Trump admit he's not smart enough for something?

post #267 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post


Pio properly answered you but to be honest you need to read this:


God, you're smug

just to remind you point of discussion was wheter you could do it lawfully
not wheter it would piss off some allies or not
post #268 of 1314
yeah, stop being smug fuuma

it hurts our feelings
post #269 of 1314
hey, is this one of those dangerous ideas we should worry about? or is it a-ok because it sponsors state-sponsored violence, which is totally cool and safe? plz advise

http://ktla.com/2016/06/15/pastor-defends-hate-filled-sermon-on-orlando-shootings/
post #270 of 1314
Quote:
Originally Posted by erictheobscure View Post

hey, is this one of those dangerous ideas we should worry about? or is it a-ok because it sponsors state-sponsored violence, which is totally cool and safe? plz advise

http://ktla.com/2016/06/15/pastor-defends-hate-filled-sermon-on-orlando-shootings/

hahahaahha, ladies and gentleman this is classic throught process of a regressive leftist

Ignore problem A, talk about problem B instead, then draw false equivalency fing02[1].gif
because two wrongs make a who gives a ****

ps. have you mentioned crusades yet?
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